Authenticity in Songwriting and Sobriety: A Conversation with Mike Kennebrew
In this episode of 'Curious Goldfish,' host Jason English invites singer-songwriter Mike Kennebrew to explore the interconnection between music, vulnerability, and personal growth. Mike shares his journey of using songwriting as a means to confront his deepest fears and life's challenges, particularly the decision to quit drinking. This candid conversation also touches on the impact of sobriety on Mike's life, family, and creativity, providing insights into being present and making positive changes. Mike's reflections on daily life post-quitting alcohol are highlighted, serving as encouragement for others facing similar struggles. Additionally, Mike talks about his musical influences, experiences of moving frequently during his childhood due to his father's ministerial job, and his career progression. The episode includes discussions about being an artist, the process of songwriting, and its therapeutic aspects. Mike also touches on the crucial role of faith in his life and music. The episode concludes with Mike's performance of 'What's Left of Me,' a single written two months after he quit drinking.
00:00 The Art of Vulnerability in Music
01:01 Introducing Curious Goldfish: A Musical Journey
01:40 Mike Kennebrew: A Story of Music, Vulnerability, and Sobriety
02:17 Navigating Life's Journey Through Songwriting
05:43 The Influence of Faith and Family in Music
11:53 The Unconventional Path to Music: From Church Camp to Professional Musician
17:33 Balancing Family, Faith, and a Music Career
21:11 Ellie and Drew: A Tale of Friendship and Music
22:56 Exploring the Roots: From Church Camps to Nashville Stardom
25:31 A Serendipitous Encounter with Theo Vonn
28:49 The Nashville Connection: Building Community and Creativity
30:39 Embracing Sobriety: A Journey of Self-Discovery
39:26 The Power of Songwriting: Conveying Personal Struggles and Triumphs
44:05 Closing Thoughts and Musical Farewell
I think, I think for me, you know, why I would think that putting my deepest fears in a song and singing it for strangers would be like a safe thing. But it sort of is what I do. I take things that I wouldn't tell my close friends, and I put them in a song, and then I take them across the southeast and Get on little stages and sing them for people I don't know. And, um, but yeah, I, I, I don't know that I've met an artist that's not a bit of a worrier. And, and I don't know that I've met a songwriter who is not to some extent using that as, um, as a way to make sense of their own lives.
Jason English (Host):Welcome to curious goldfish, a podcast community where music and curiosity come together through interesting conversations with the music makers of our world. I'm your host, Jason English. You can find curious goldfish and all the major podcast and social media platforms. And of course, we have all of our content on our website. Curious goldfish. com. I firmly hope not all nice guys have to finish last. And as someone who considers himself a nice guy, I'm always pulling for any other man out there who is not just nice, but kind and authentic. One such person is singer songwriter, Mike Kennebrew. In this episode, which is part one of a two part series with Mike, Kennebrew. com We explore the intricate connections between music, vulnerability, and personal growth. He shares his experiences of using songwriting as a cathartic process to navigate his deepest fears and life challenges, including his decision to quit drinking. The discussion sheds light on the impact of sobriety on his life, family, and creative process, offering insightful reflections on being present and making positive changes. You should check out Mike's Instagram account where he shares reflections of daily words he was feeling when he quit drinking. They are great examples of a musician, husband and father who is trying to help those who might be struggling with alcohol addiction or even those who are just trying to take a break from drinking temporarily. Aside from that, Mike is a tremendous musician and songwriter, having shared the stage with familiar artists like Drew Holcomb, Joan Jett, and Howie Day. He closes this episode with a great song called What's Left of Me, a single he released two years ago. It's a song he wrote about two months after he quit drinking. And now Mike is on the precipice of being 900 days sober. Here's Mike Kennebrew of Macon, Georgia. Let's dive in. Mike, thanks so much for your
Mike Kinnebrew:Thanks for having me, man. This is awesome.
Jason English (Host):So we, uh, we're at Lake Sinclair, which is kind of an hour, I think Southeast of Atlanta, but it's a hour Northwest, I think North of Macon where you live,
Mike Kinnebrew:live, right? I'm so challenged. Uh, north, south, east, west. I know that it took me 50 minutes. 50 minutes to get
Jason English (Host):As the crow flies. All right. Well, thanks. Thanks so much for coming up and chatting. Uh, how long have you been in Macon?
Mike Kinnebrew:Uh, about 18 years.
Jason English (Host):years. Okay. But you grew up in Atlanta, right?
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, I grew up like east of Atlanta, um, just east about, uh, Rockdale County. And, um, and then my wife went to medical school at Mercer. And so we moved, uh, just for her to do medical school. And then we never left. So, that was never part of the plan. But, but we're, we're there.
Jason English (Host):Alright. So, it's always been Georgia for you?
Mike Kinnebrew:No, no, I was born in Florida. Yeah, my dad was a preacher. And we moved, he was Preaching at different churches, and so, I mean, the first 12 years of my life would have been Florida, um, Lynchburg, Virginia, Memphis, Tennessee, um, Buckeye, Arkansas, um, Leachville, Missouri, um, another place in Missouri, then Jacksonville, Florida, and, um, I may be leaving something out, but, so yeah, different school every year, and then, um, and then moved to Georgia right before high school. And, and then stayed.
Jason English (Host):So. You would think.
Mike Kinnebrew:You would think that or he was murdering people. And we had to like, we were on the run. But, um, no he was just. I wanted to ask him later on, were you just bad at your job? Why were we having to move every year? But, um, I think he was great. I don't know what was going on, but we were moving like every year and, uh, then he became a professor at a seminary and that sort of stopped the moving and we stayed put.
Jason English (Host):put. Okay. Yeah. So, I grew up in Missouri. Yeah. You're the first person that's literally uttered the words, Leachville, Missouri, to me, in probably 45 years.
Mike Kinnebrew:So, you've heard of that town before? Yeah.
Jason English (Host):I can't believe that that
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. We, um, so that, we were in the boot heel of
Jason English (Host):hill. Yeah. So, so in Kennett, that's where Sheryl Crow's from.
Mike Kinnebrew:I knew Kennett. Kennett was one of the towns that we could drive to,
Jason English (Host):Okay, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right there. Like, that's it. Yeah. It's Tennessee, Missouri, and Arkansas kind of area,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Yeah. Oh,
Jason English (Host):okay. Well, that's awesome. So, yeah, I, I've kind of picked up that, uh, that faith, right, is, is, uh, is still part of your life. Yeah. I would imagine. I guess what What kind of imprint did that make on you? Either, you know, having your dad doing what he was doing or being around other people, you know, what, what was the imprint you think that that left on your life?
Mike Kinnebrew:I'd say, moving around a lot. The, you know, the church was always a part of our lives, and, and that culture for better or for worse, um, because, uh, it's It's hard to even, you know. Give a, give a split on which was, how much of it was better and how much of it was worse, but that Christian culture, um, was always a part of my life. So, um, so I, you know, I got to see a little bit about what I, what I wanted to, to keep and what I wanted to, to let fall away. Um, but, but just a simple faith and, uh, was, was something that's, you know, definitely been a part of my life, all of my life.
Jason English (Host):Yeah, that's great. Uh, do you, we're gonna get to, you know, the songs and, and some things in more detail, but, uh, you, you're an artist from what I can tell. Uh, listening to you since, you know, late last year. Uh, You're, you're about all the feels.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah.
Jason English (Host):mean, is, is sentiment, is that your middle name?
Mike Kinnebrew:Uh, it should be, man. I, um, I don't, I don't know that I like it, but it's, you know, if you're trying to just sort of be who you are, write what, write what's inside of you, that's what seems to come out. You know, it's just not a lot of, um, ah, this one's just fun,
Jason English (Host):right.
Mike Kinnebrew:know? Um, it's, it's all, yeah, it's all gonna try and hit you in the feels
Jason English (Host):because the, um, kind back to the faith thing, cause you know, family, you've got songs that are sort of, I would call like lighthouse guideposts, messages to your kids, right? Um, baby girl where the big waves are are some examples of that. you talk about in, in one song, I think first and last, that's like, um, about your grandparents and their love, right. But I think all of that to me is, It was familiar to me because I, I grew up in the church too. It was those sentiments about family and kids and grandparents. To me, that reminds me of like the community of the faith community, right? Yeah. Would you agree with that?
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think that it's all kind of, um, the architecture surrounding all of the family has always been, at least in my experience, the church has always been the framework that it existed in.
Jason English (Host):Yeah. But you're not in your music. You're not like, it's not overt. It's not like Christian music,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, no.
Jason English (Host):all, it's very subtle.
Mike Kinnebrew:No, I literally I shouted yesterday because it was, there was Christian music on in the car and I was like, I hate this music. And uh, um, and some of it is good. I don't hate all of it, but, but yeah, I don't, I don't write it. And I've had people ask me, um, recently someone asked me in an email, she said, you know, well, if you are a. believer, um, a Christian, why do you not write Christian songs? And, um, I didn't really have a great answer for that other than I just write what I write, you know. I try to write good songs, and I think, you know, as far as my faith framework, it's just, uh, I believe that God made me. He made me good at certain things, and I try to do them the best that I can. And when I get an opportunity to talk about the reason or the why, then I do. But not to try to be too preachy.
Jason English (Host):Right. Well, I think Yeah, again, my experience growing up in what I would call the buckle of the Bible Belt, which is central Missouri I grew up in a lot of Christian music and you know, like you said some of its good but Looking back Mike my take kind of is there's a lot of folks. I think unfortunately We're just kind of trying to make a buck off Jesus a a off Jesus. Yeah. pretty shallow, you know, steal some scriptures here and there and kind of say, you know, praise Jesus and sell some records. But I think like how I would respond to that email, just hearing that I'd be like, well, isn't God about. Yeah. Family and kids
Mike Kinnebrew:and
Jason English (Host):Yeah. Lifelong love. Yeah. Like isn't, don't you see him through those things? Yeah. So like, I am, like I am writing Christian music.
Mike Kinnebrew:Christian music. Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And, uh, and I, and I think that those songs, um, you know, I have a, uh, I love the audience that I have. I'm not just singing in churches. I rarely sing in churches. Um, and so I, I just, I want music that anyone can relate to. And, um, and yeah, I, I would say to that also, like, well, what am I singing or writing that is not, that is un Christian or anti Christian?
Jason English (Host):No, it is, yeah, it's, it, that drives me crazy cause it's like, just because you have in your house. Bible verses everywhere. It's almost like they're kind of trying to like overcompensate Maybe some other issues and you know As long as you've got the bumper stickers and the signs and everything then you're the right kind of christian,
Mike Kinnebrew:Right, yeah, which is, in experience, not proven to be Yeah. Yeah. No, that's uh, yeah, don't don't ever write like don't, I I don't plan to. I mean, I just, I wrote a song this year that kind of was the most overt. Um, but, but even in it, I mean, I say things that would never be on Christian radio, about, uh, you know, just try to be honest and go, all right, the next lyric would say something that would keep this song off of Christian radio. And I go, well, I'm going to write it anyway, you know, cause it just want to write what's true.
Jason English (Host):How soon in your life did you get involved in music? I
Mike Kinnebrew:was in the ninth grade. We had just moved to Georgia and, um, and I got actually sent off to church camp. Um, I didn't want to go, but, um, it was like, Oh, you'll meet some people, you know, and so I go and I don't know anyone and everyone else's friends with each other. And, during the free time, there was this guy that had like a guitar and he would go out and sit under a tree and. Play the guitar and all the girls would just like swarm him and I'm just like loner guy who doesn't have any friends and I'm thinking that, that, that could be me. You know, so I got home and said, dad, don't you play guitar? Don't you have a guitar? You, you gotta teach me. So he, he showed me some chords and about ninth grade, I started playing guitar. Didn't start singing until later. Didn't start writing until a good bit later. And initially it was just learning other people's songs and singing them, doing four hours in a bar, you know, for cover tunes. tunes.
Jason English (Host):Nice. did you ever have, a normal, quote unquote normal job or career, uh, before music kind of became your thing?
Mike Kinnebrew:Right. Um, I mean, I worked normal jobs like, uh, I was a gymnastics coach.
Jason English (Host):were a gymnastics
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, I don't do gymnastics. Um, but I was, uh, when I was in college, this guy put a, uh, a, a bulletin up and it said, you know, we were hiring guys that are good with kids. Um, it pays well and it was near my house and, uh, it was Rockdale Gymnastics. And so I was like, I don't, I don't do gymnastics. He goes, that's okay. I mean, you just got to be good with little kids because it was, it's like five, six year olds that you just got to say, jump in the middle of the trampoline, you know, and don't only one at a time. And yeah, I'm not teaching high level gymnastics here. It was more like the very entry level. So yeah, but I loved it. I was coach Mike. Um, I
Jason English (Host):bet you were great.
Mike Kinnebrew:but when I would say like, Hey, the, the longer I did it, the more you got to, Teach them different stuff. So, you know here we're doing this round off and you gotta you know Do this and do that and and they go what will you show me? That's when I go, um, it's not my job to show you you just do what I tell you
Jason English (Host):you didn't even know anything about
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, he's a football football coach. He's a football coach. Yeah. So, I didn't have that, that, that illustration to lean on back then. I wish I had. I could have been. I'm Ted Lasso.
Jason English (Host):yeah, when, when's the last time you used the term round off, by the way?
Mike Kinnebrew:Um. Yeah, it's definitely been about 20 years. That was, that was about 20 years ago when coached gymnastics, but, um, yeah, but it was just, it was glorified daycare. Um, they had, they had real coaches coaching the real gymnastics, but for the first graders, you know, I could just keep them safe and, and keep them in a line and. and all that. It was, it was fun though. I liked working with kids. I was, if I had not done music, I was, I think I was going to be like a, an elementary school teacher. Cause it was the only thing I ever did besides music that when I was doing it, I wasn't thinking about playing music when I was hanging out with the kids and making them laugh or entertaining them or whatever. I was, I really enjoyed it. it.
Jason English (Host):That's awesome. So at what point did you say, okay, the music thing could be, could be something that you could pursue?
Mike Kinnebrew:It was always the the minute, I wasn't I wasn't a sports guy. I didn't. My dad wasn't really an athlete and didn't play any sports, so he didn't get me into sports. And, um, I didn't make good grades. I didn't have, any clear path forward. So as soon as I seemed to have an aptitude for music, I thought, well, let me see if I can do this. And so that was always the, the goal and the plan and anything I did between delivering pizzas for Papa John's or working at the gymnastics gym was always just something to kind of supplement, um, until I could make a living playing playing
Jason English (Host):At what point did you realize that you could make a living?
Mike Kinnebrew:pretty early on. Yeah. Um, Not a good living, but, but you could go and, and, and play. This is, you know, I was. It was a lot easier to get paid to go sing for four hours in Buckhead, um, of the Eagles and James Taylor and all that than it was to get anyone to pay you to, to sing your own songs. So as long as I had the kind of stamina to, to drive up there and play from 10 PM to 2 AM for, um, you know, a couple hundred bucks, then. I could, I could make some money doing it and then I would always have something at a church on Sundays because I could lead the music at a church and, um, and that was, you know, it was a blessing for me to have a steady income from that. And I think it was hopefully a blessing for them too, to have somebody that, Wasn't just using them for a paycheck and was pretty decent at it to do it. So between the two, I've always been able to, to, to do it, make money with music. Making music.
Jason English (Host):back to the church camp, that's funny. Cause like the, those guys with the guitars, I mean, there's a lot of talented musicians in the Mm-Hmm. Um, so that, that's funny that that, that's kind of the, the aha moment.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, yeah, it was a totally shallow, totally, uh, I just want girls to like me and they seem to like this guy. So yeah, yeah, they just, they're all, all my wife, um, has a birthday on, uh, March 13th. Emma will be. 14 on March 20th, Turner just turned 12 on February 28th, so it's like a three week span and everybody has a birthday.
Jason English (Host):You're busy.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, so I got, they're 12 and 14 basically. He is, he is 12 and she's 14.
Jason English (Host):Are they into music as, as well?
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lindsey plays piano and I taught Lindsey guitar. Um, she hasn't really taught them piano much, but I've taught them both guitar and they both seem to like it.
Jason English (Host):Yeah. And, uh,
Mike Kinnebrew:yeah, Turner, I would say that would, that's probably his main thing more than any other hobby. He likes to play guitar.
Jason English (Host):main So if Turner was to say listen Dad I want to be like a professional musician,
Mike Kinnebrew:right.
Jason English (Host):would you be like, uh hell no, or. It's possible. I mean, you know, because the industry has changed so much. Like, do you see, is that a future that you'd be like, yeah, go for it or,
Mike Kinnebrew:It would just have to be, you know, how, how, how do you want to make a living doing this? You know, are you going to be an insanely good guitar player? Um, There's a lot of those, you know, and, um, not all of them can make a living doing it. Are you going to write songs? You're going to write songs that you sing? Are you going to write songs that other people sing? You try to sell them. Um, so I think I would love to sit down and if he said, I want to do this, um, I'd love to go, okay, well, let's talk about how, what does that look like? I certainly wouldn't be like, hell no. Um, cause, cause it has not, I know some friends who would be, uh, for their kids, but it. I just it has not been hard for me. I haven't been hugely successful, but I've also never been the starving artist. I think largely in part, early on. I always had, a thing at a church, you know, to kind of help me. And then my wife is a physician, so, um, and I've always had some sort of
Jason English (Host):yeah, that's good
Mike Kinnebrew:income, you know? it hasn't been a real rough, starving artist thing for me that would make me jaded about it. And, yeah, and I haven't been successful enough to be jaded. Um, I've just sort of had a very charmed, experience with music.
Jason English (Host):No, it's been good. I mean, you've, you've opened for a number of well known artists, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, and I'd imagine you've toured a little bit. Mm hmm. Is it mostly in the Southeast,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, mostly southeast. Um, actually 30A is, has opened up some more things, for me just because of all the people that come from all over. So, uh, within a couple days of, of, of that festival. I was booked in Dallas to do something in April. I was in Scotland last year, for Fringe Festival and I'm going back in June to play again. Um, do three shows there with a friend. So, um, but most of it has been, you know, Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama.
Jason English (Host):Oh, that's neat. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I noticed, you know, you did a song with Ellie Holcomb and uh, you know, Drew and Ellie are awesome. Uh, I've seen him twice actually in Atlanta both the years on Valentine's day. Yeah.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Yeah, they do that kind of traditional.
Jason English (Host):It seems like they're probably the coolest, chillest, happiest couple on stage. You know, you never know, but like, are they cool to hang out with?
Mike Kinnebrew:Um, yeah, yeah. I've hung out with Drew more than with Ellie. I wasn't even there when Ellie did that song, um, on my record. Um, she did it after I had already cut the vocals and I was back in Georgia and she went in and did it. But, um, yeah, Ellie's one of the sweetest people. I mean, she is, she is exactly what What she portrays herself to be. Very sweet, very kind, very bubbly. She and Drew's personalities are vastly different. Um, but Drew's a solid guy. He's a good guy. He, um, he's been a good friend to me over the years. Always, he's, he's on a rocket ship. I mean, they're, they're blowing up. Sometimes people like that don't take your calls anymore and he always, he always responds and takes my calls and he's a, he's a, he's a kind guy and, um, yeah, they're, they're both very, very
Jason English (Host):both very, the word genuine comes to mind when i see them on stage. Again, you never know. i'm glad you can reinforce that
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, I would say that and I, I've known him since, um, for about 15, 20 years. they haven't changed even though they're doing a lot, a lot of big things now, um, very good people.
Jason English (Host):And then like back to the Christian music thing briefly, like Ellie Holcomb, some would consider, I think she's kind of done country, folk, Americana, and then a little bit of Christian, but she's one of the ones that's like, okay, like that's cool, you know, cause cause she's great and it's authentic and it's,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, and I think there's several like that, you know, um, the singer songwriters who, who venture into Christian music, they seem to still be creating, you know, unique, good art. And I would definitely put Ellie in with that. I mean, she's a true songwriter she's real, really popular in Christian music. and then Drew is really popular in the Americana thing and then they do their thing together and it's a beautiful thing, you know, yeah.
Jason English (Host):That's awesome. And then Matthew Perryman Jones, right? How long have you known him?
Mike Kinnebrew:Longer than Drew and Ellie. Matthew and I met when he lived here in Atlanta. he moved to Nashville about a year after we became friends and we went, uh, we, we did some He probably won't like this, but we did some church camps together. I brought him down to Panama City Beach to do like a music thing over a church camp with me and that was when we were both just I mean probably 21 years old or something and then he went out to Nashville and um, started writing songs a lot more and got a publishing deal and Again, he he's he's had a lot of success He's I respect him and look up to him as a writer as much as anybody and he's a great guy, too
Jason English (Host):Did you bring him to perform at the church camp?
Mike Kinnebrew:So I was having to go and I was like, man, come with me. Would you just come? And, uh, cause when we're not, yeah, in Panama city, when we're not doing the music, we just hang out. And, and he came for some reason, he wanted to go deep sea fishing. He took me on my first deep sea fishing and, uh, it was miserable. I was throwing up for five hours and, uh, we still talk about that, but, he went down and he, he, he kind of, he, Drew and Matthew and, and I, we all kind of were doing the church thing and the, and the sing. If you were a guy writing songs, um, at that point in time, the church was a good place to sing them. If you were, um, wholesome, you didn't even necessarily have to be overtly Christian. And so we were both doing, we were all doing some of that and, um, and then they kind of, um, just went more Americana folk stuff.
Jason English (Host):Yeah. makes sense
Mike Kinnebrew:and so did I. Um, but, but I think we all have a lot of people like that have their roots and that Ben Rector, uh, Andrew Rip, um, a lot of those guys, you know, got their start in the church. I think
Jason English (Host):think I, I think I met, I didn't meet him, but I think I met his music through, uh, did you ever see paste magazine? Yeah. Yeah, so they, it's like, I wish I still had them. I actually regret it. I, I used to have every paste sampler because they would send the magazine.
Mike Kinnebrew:about that. Was Matthew on a
Jason English (Host):Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I forgot the song, but it was, it probably would have been 2005, 2006, 2007, maybe, I don't know, but it was the coolest thing. Cause you get a CD inside the magazine and it'd have, you know, they'd load up the songs. It was, it was almost like a the 2000s version of a playlist, you know, but it was on a disc and uh, yeah, I remember cause he is a unique name. He was like Matthew Perryman Jones. That's interesting. Um, do you, have you seen him lately?
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, we had dinner last month. And that's when we bumped into, uh, uh, what's his name at Jenny's Ice Cream. Um, Theo Vonn.
Jason English (Host):Oh, Theo Vonn is the comedian, the podcaster guy. Yeah. All right. Yeah.
Mike Kinnebrew:But no, yeah, I saw him. So I've been going back and forth to Nashville recording this album for about nine months. And Matthew and I have gotten dinner a few times while I'm there. He's I have a few friends out there. It's like such a great community. I wish I love that my people are here in Georgia, but man, so many great people. that I love live in Nashville and um, so Matthew's on the, on the top of the call list of people when I'm in town, I'd love to get dinner with and I don't, I don't spend my life with people who are doing music, you know, I live in Macon and I mostly just wake up feeling like a dad and a husband and a, um, guy that works at his church and works with the youth and stuff like that. And so it's great when I'm in Nashville to get together with someone like Matthew and And talk about being a songwriter, being an artist, and, and what his careers look like, and what's coming up. It just, something alive, comes to life in me. So
Jason English (Host):So are you guys just hanging out with Theo Vonn just randomly, or? Yeah,
Mike Kinnebrew:we were talking about Comedians, um, my friend, my friend Jody's an actor and, uh, and he was in a movie with Tom Segura. Um, do you know who he is? I
Jason English (Host):I know who he is,
Mike Kinnebrew:Tom's a comedian and, uh, he was, Jody was in this movie with Mark Wahlberg and Tom Segura. So he became buddies with Tom Segura and Tom was playing at the Tabernacle and invited us to come. And so I went out and I was like, Oh, this guy's great. So Tom is, uh, is one of my favorite comedians. And we were talking about like, who's your favorite? And someone said like Chappelle. And then I was like, who is that guy that has the, uh, kind of the mullet and he's kind of younger. I got a real kind of interesting way of talking and, and they said, uh, my friend William said, that's Theo Vonn. And I was like, oh yeah, do you like him? And then Matthew goes, uh, he's here. And I was like, like. It what do you mean here? Like he's, he's a, he's here. Like I said, in like here, like in this Jeni's Ice Cream Island thing. He was like, yeah, um, he is here right now. We were all so, it was like we had summoned him by, I said, what's his name? William said Theo Vonn and Matthew said he's here. And I was just thinking, man, we picked the wrong dude to summon. Like I would have said, We talk about Bono or somebody like, but, but Theo Vonn wasn't. Yeah, but Matthew and I had dinner.
Jason English (Host):That's, that's
Mike Kinnebrew:and then we bumped into Theo Vonn, but didn't speak to him.
Jason English (Host):No, that's
Mike Kinnebrew:But he about turned that Jeni's ice cream upside down. He came in with a girl and totally just sat down trying to have his ice cream. And by the time we got up to leave, we were walking out and every, like, you know, what, Belmont student was in there with their phones, either recording him or on their phone going, He's here! I'm looking at him right now! they were leaving But they were leaving them alone, you know, apparently that's the Nashville code is you don't mess with them. Um, that they, they, they move to Nashville because they know people there will let them be.
Jason English (Host):So you mentioned the community of, you know, you love Georgia, but it's Nashville. So Atlanta, obviously in Georgia in general, Atlanta has a tremendous music scene being in Macon. How do you, how do you find time and how do you make that work to like have those times where you connect with other artists? Cause it is important, right?
Mike Kinnebrew:I don't connect as much as I wish I did yeah. this year I've done it more than ever before. Between going to Nashville and working on the record I'm around these musicians and I'm in town and have a chance to, to reach out and say, Hey, can we get lunch? Can we get dinner? And so between that and then doing some of these festivals like 30A where I bump into songwriters that I've, I've kind of seen them around or I've talked to them through social media and now I'm with them. We're doing the same. We're in the same small town. And uh, so. I've been networking more, or just building community more, or trying to join a community that's already there more than I ever have before. I'm kind of introverted. I choose to not hang out with people, and uh, but it's, it's so valuable. It's been really good for me.
Jason English (Host):I would imagine just the inspiration and creativity just probably feeds off each other when you hang out with Eliot Bronson or whoever might be there
Mike Kinnebrew:Well, Well, it just helps me at least, you know, I don't know if any of them feel this way, but it helps me to feel like, like I said, I don't really feel like a, an artist most of the time when I wake up i just feel like a 46 year old man, you know, and uh, getting to be around other artists helps me to kind of remember who I am and what the fabric is of me.
Jason English (Host):Yeah, 46 year old, uh, former gymnastics coach.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Let's not forget it. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason English (Host):So I, what I want to do is shift a little bit, uh, so again, I started following you late last year and then in January you started doing something on Instagram, which I thought was pretty, pretty interesting. you talk about being vulnerable and, and, empathetic, uh, just those are terms that we hear a lot about, but you went on Instagram and was like, listen, uh, if you're trying out dry January,
Mike Kinnebrew:hmm.
Jason English (Host):I want to share some, some, some thoughts with you, I guess. Could you tell us, could you give us kind of how you would, how you explained it online and we can go through some examples. It was really pretty cool.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize that it would be, I didn't know if anyone would care. Listen, I didn't, I didn't know if it would have a reaction or not. And, uh, but yeah, January one, we were in Highlands, North Carolina, and I just thought, you know what? I'm going to put this out there. So when I quit drinking, um, about two and a half, three years ago, uh, I made a list every day or I just made a little note every day in my, my, my notes app on my phone of, um, something I noticed that day when I wasn't drinking. And, uh, something positive like, Oh, well, this is different. You know, I never, I never used to take any days off when I was drinking. I drank every day as soon as the work was done for the day, I would make a drink and, and, and drink, you know. Quite a lot. after about 30 days of that, I quit, I quit making the list, but, um, I held on to the note, and I thought, you know, that might be good for some other people that are, that are doing it. And so, it just occurred to me to put, put one out every day. I'm just gonna read what I had, what I wrote, and, uh, maybe it'll, you know, for those of you that are trying dry January, maybe it'll, uh, Help you to see something positive to get you through another day. You know, um, it's the why behind when you're, when you're doing something like that, you know, whether it's, you're trying to diet or trying to give up alcohol or trying to do whatever. At some point in the day, you're like, why am I doing this? I'm an adult. I can, I, this is America, damn it. Like I can. And so to have a, have a why behind it and go, well, I'm doing it because. Um, because this or that, you know, these good things are coming from it, and that's why I'm doing it. So,
Jason English (Host):No, it's really neat. So yeah, on Instagram, Mike Kennebrew, you can, you can look at, you know, look it up if you're listening. Uh, but you, you basically say sobriety is, and then it's like the theme of the day based on the note that would, that you did two and a half years ago. Right.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, exactly.
Jason English (Host):So like when, like the first day you said, you know, sobriety is. Not dying from something stupid.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, I went kind of
Jason English (Host):That's, you know, that's good. Yeah, some
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Some of 'em were silly. Uh, like I think my sobriety is, I think my skin's looking better, skin looking better, and uh, but the first one was, you know, yeah. Was not, for not dying for something stupid because, uh. Um, when I was drinking, I would, I would get behind the wheel of a car, you know, you tell yourself you're okay, you tell yourself, um, it's not very far to drive or whatever, and, uh, and, and, so, that one went pretty deep, and it didn't stay that deep and heavy for the whole 30 days, but, but yeah, that was, That was one of them, and it was a real one, and I don't, I don't really know how else to be, you know, um, whether writing songs or talking on a podcast or putting those sobriety is things out there. I just, I'm I'm maybe candid to a fault and vulnerable to a fault, and you just hope that by being that way that it gives people permission to be that way in return, you know.
Jason English (Host):No, I think people appreciate it. You know, especially if you're an artist. Uh, you know, people want to know, I think, the context of Break the heartbreak, the pain, the um, the love that people are going through. Even if, you know, even if they've never experienced it, they could probably, I think, somehow relate to it. And at some point in their lives, it'll, it'll be relevant to them,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, yeah, it's sort of and I don't mean to say anything negative about people who don't write their own songs Um, If you don't write your own songs, I'd love to sell you mine But it's kind of a wet blanket on falling in love with a song and then realizing the person singing it You really you know didn't write it didn't have any real emotional. They could have a connection to it. But um, but it's just Sort of a little deflating feeling when you go. Oh, they didn't even write that, you know, and so whether I can Relate to what that person is singing about or not. I can just I believe them, you know and and it's like they're telling me something always felt like music was songs were telling me something and so the fact that the person lived through that whether I could relate to it or not meant it resonated with me
Jason English (Host):Yeah. Yeah. So the, just to kind of wrap this up on the sobriety is. Things so, you know not dying from something stupid was day one day day two was sobriety is reading with Turner, which is cool because that Obviously time with kids is special, you know every day that goes by they're getting older It's one day closer to when they're not not at home. So the fact that You're sober not drinking. I think those I would imagine those times became even more special
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, I mean, there were, not to mention, I mean, there were times when I would go up there and, uh, read with 'em and just sort of zone out, zonk out, you read, um, you know, I'm not real. I'm there, but I'm not really there. Uh, and then there were other times I just go, I'm going to go to bed early, you know, and so I think on day two, the reason I wrote that was just that I was up there and we were reading and I realized I was enjoying it. You know, I'm looking at him, I'm thinking about how he's getting better at reading and how he's getting older and, and I'm wide awake and I'm in this moment and I'm thinking about all the other times that I passed up on, on being right there where I was. Um, because when I'd start drinking, I'd just get tired, you know, and I just want to stay where I'm at. Don't want to go up the stairs and do that. So, yeah, it was definitely, was a, that was a real eye opener for me that I'm here, and I probably wouldn't be here if I was drinking that day.
Jason English (Host):that's awesome, and Day 7 is that, Sobriety is being 100 percent present Yeah. In your life.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Yeah, I was, you know, I went Um, when I talk about how I quit, then no one ever said, Oh, thank God you quit. You know, like we were all worried about you. Nobody really knew that the effect it was having on me, but I knew that that, cause I would always show up, I showed up for everything. Um, I didn't, I didn't know show work or, uh, games or, or plays or anything, but I wasn't necessarily always there, you know? Um, and so that was, yeah, that was definitely day seven was not just being there, but being actually there. Yeah. I credit to you for doing that.
Jason English (Host):You know, not a lot of 46 year old former gymnastics coaches would pull that off,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Well, I stuck it. I stuck the landing on that one.
Jason English (Host):That's awesome, yeah, no, it's seriously like it in all seriousness Um, It was just something like okay. This guy is authentic and genuine and it wasn't like you're looking for likes or fishing for Mike you're such you Praise Jesus. You're, you know, you know, God bless you. You know, you weren't, it was just like, Hey guys, here's a couple of things. If you're trying to Dry January out, hopefully this will inspire you to, to think about, you know, uh, getting, getting through that and maybe you'll make it a life change. You know, it was really, really cool.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Sometimes that vulnerability is like you get hit by traffic going both ways because the church, I think some of the, my more churchy friends were like, don't put it out there that you, I don't drink that much, like that's, it makes them a little nervous that I was being so honest about it. And then, and then maybe some others were like, you know, are you trying to sound like drinking is bad? Are you trying to be judgmental to people who are drinking? And I go, no, I mean, not at all. Like if you can drink and not, not. be irresponsible and waste your life with it, then I miss it. I loved, I still miss it. I love drinking. but I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it in a right way. But yeah, that being, being honest and, and doing it the way I did it and sharing it the way I shared it. Um, hopefully it came through the right way, but I feel like, you know, at some point people on the extreme in either camp are like, ah, we don't like you.
Jason English (Host):yeah, that's, well, that's, that's disappointing, but I guess not surprising. Um, so I think right about that time when you decided to not drink anymore. I think you wrote a song called, uh, What's Left of Me? Is that right? I guess, uh,
Mike Kinnebrew:was about a month or two in,
Jason English (Host):Was it, okay, so it was kind of correlated. Um, yeah, tell us, cause it, it's the, I think one of your most recent singles, or maybe the most recent single. Um,
Mike Kinnebrew:Second to There's one, one that's newer, but Yeah. It's, it's, it's, um, the's second to most recent
Jason English (Host):to most recent. Yeah. It's, it's beautiful. Uh,
Mike Kinnebrew:I'm,
Jason English (Host):I'm going to read some of the lyrics here in a second, but what, what was the inspiration for what's left of me?
Mike Kinnebrew:Uh, well anytime I start writing, I don't quite know where it's gonna go. And, um, you just, you start writing and it sort of reveals itself what the song is gonna be about. And, um, but I was definitely everyday waking up with the headline that, I used to do this and now I'm not doing this and life is weird, you know, it's just weird that I used to drink and now I'm not drinking. What is going on and how do I process this? And so, um, but I'm making a change at 44 years old. Um, you start thinking about all the time that's passed and, and as I put alcohol kind of in the rear view mirror, I'm looking back and I'm thinking about all the nights that I didn't go up and read with Turner or all the, all the, Things I wasn't really present for and you just start to it's it's easy to get in this loop of beating yourself up over The time that you've lost maybe going in the wrong direction or wasted and so that the kind of the theme to to that song is just um, I could could I take what's left of my life and say, okay, well, if there's some kind of plan, I'll just, I'll surrender and you can have what's left of me. And, uh, let's see if we can do something great with that, you know, and I believe that we can.
Jason English (Host):that's, that's, that's incredible. I love that. And I think each verse, I could be wrong, but are you, you're kind of, it feels like you're talking to Lindsay in one verse or maybe a family member and then kind of the last verse, it feels like you're talking to God,
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah. Yeah. The last verse is definitely, um, sort of a faith, uh, like a repentance and altar moment.
Jason English (Host):Baptism in the river
Mike Kinnebrew:yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like a, like a salvation, uh, kind of moment. Um, but the, uh, yeah, the first about with Lindsay is that she, you know, I guess I'm drinking more than most, at least that's what she told me. And, and, uh, she really was the only one who said, you know, yeah. Hey, um, how, how many is that? You know? Um, but yeah, and the first verse takes on worry and anxiety. Cause if I would say I spent a lot of my life worrying, I'm a big. Time worry guy. And uh, and then the second verse takes on drinking. And the, the two, probably the two big things that were big kinda life wasters for me was worrying and then, and then maybe abusing same. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the first verse I just wrote, I think I wrote it down. Hopefully I got this right. Um, Lord have mercy on a troubled heart like mine who
Jason English (Host):who could probably do some good if he wasn't worried all the time. And if there's still some kind of plan for what my life can be. I'll lay down and you can have what's left of me.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah.
Jason English (Host):That's killer.
Mike Kinnebrew:Yeah, thank
Jason English (Host):Yeah, that's really killer. The worry aspect of it is, um, Do you think a lot of artists are anxious and worried and and they, do they use the art and they, do they use the time and in front of people to sort of like work through that? Yeah.
Mike Kinnebrew:Um, yeah, I think, I think for me, you know, why I would think that putting my deepest fears in a song and singing it for strangers would be like a safe thing. But it sort of is what I do. I take things that I wouldn't tell my close friends, and I put them in a song, and then I take them across the southeast and Get on little stages and sing them for people I don't know. And, um, but yeah, I, I, I don't know that I've met an artist that's not a bit of a worrier. And, and I don't know that I've met a songwriter who is not to some extent using that as, um, as a way to make sense of their own lives. You know, um, that I've heard more times than I can count. They say it's, you know, cheaper than therapy.
Jason English (Host):Yeah. Well, appreciate your time. you play us some music?
Mike Kinnebrew:So.
Jason English (Host):Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Curious Goldfish. Please follow and subscribe to the podcast and on social media. Also tell your music loving friends about us too. Until next time, stay curious.