Mae Krell on Music, Growth, and Personal Healing: A Journey from New York's Indie Scene
In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews indie artist Mae Krell, touching upon her personal journey, music, and healing process. Mae opens up about her struggles growing up in New York City, her challenges with mental health and sobriety, and how these experiences have shaped her music. They discuss Mae's latest album, 'I Might Be Grown', the significance of its title, and some key tracks, such as 'Apollo's Song' and 'Grown'. Mae also talks about the process of building genuine connections with her fans, the evolving music industry, and her ambitions for the future. The episode concludes with Mae performing two songs from her album.
00:00 Introduction to Self-Forgiveness
01:05 Welcome to Curious Goldfish
01:45 Discovering Mae Krell
03:00 Mae Krell's Musical Journey
05:21 Touring and Album Release
10:02 The Independent Artist's Hustle
22:52 Life in New York vs. Nashville
29:32 Balancing Life and Isolation
30:35 Dreams of a Nomadic Lifestyle
32:25 The New Album: I Might Be Grown
35:47 The Story Behind 'To Begin'
42:58 Personal Reflections and Sobriety
47:13 Music as a Lifeline
52:45 Curiosity and Future Plans
54:50 Live Performance: 'Grown' and 'Apollo's Song'
01:03:47 Closing Thoughts and Farewell
00:00:05
Mae Krell: long, and so I I just
never thought that I would have to
00:00:09
internally deal with any I was putting
myself through, um, and so to begin
00:00:16
to me feels like kind of a, a way of
acknowledging other people did things
00:00:23
to hurt me, but I put myself in the
situations for those things distance
00:00:27
from that and I'm no longer doing
those things, but I still have all of
00:00:30
these fears and anxieties and leftover
pain from stuff that I put myself in.
00:00:36
And How do you forgive
yourself and move on?
00:00:41
and if you can't Can you at least
ask yourself to start doing it?
00:00:45
And so that's kind of what to
begin as it's saying like the
00:00:47
lyric and there's a lyric in it
if asking to belong is too much.
00:00:52
Can I at least ask to begin?
00:00:54
That's kind of what the lyric that
the song name comes from is so it's
00:00:57
just saying like I don't know if I can
promise That I'm gonna be okay with all
00:01:02
this stuff But I can promise that I'm
gonna try to be and like that's gonna
00:01:11
Jason English (Host): Welcome to
curious goldfish, a podcast community
00:01:14
where music and curiosity come together
through interesting conversations
00:01:17
with the music makers of our world.
00:01:19
I'm your host, Jason English.
00:01:22
You can find curious goldfish and all the
major podcast and social media platforms.
00:01:26
And of course, we have all of
our content on our website.
00:01:29
Curious goldfish.
00:01:31
com.
00:01:45
I love a playlist called
Indie Folk Central.
00:01:48
It's available on Spotify.
00:01:49
Yes, but the one I love is the one that
plays on YouTube, curated by someone named
00:01:54
Rufus, the YouTube version has simple
yet interesting graphics and includes
00:01:58
meanings of songs while each one plays
00:02:00
descriptions provided by
the artists themselves.
00:02:03
I recall sometime late last year in 2023,
it was a cloudy, maybe even a rainy day,
00:02:09
and a song started playing by a young
woman who sounded no older than 16.
00:02:13
It was melancholy, yes, and maybe even
borderline what the kids call sad girl.
00:02:19
But there was a sweet innocence
to it that it just drew me in.
00:02:23
The artist singing was Mae Krell
00:02:26
and in the spirit of curiosity, I
started to dig a little bit deeper into
00:02:30
her story via Google and Instagram.
00:02:33
She interested me because of her
New York roots and the fact that
00:02:36
while she's now in her twenties,
she's lived an interesting life.
00:02:39
Having started to photograph live
music events in her teens and attending
00:02:43
the rehabilitation center in Utah.
00:02:46
When most of the friends her age were
either in high school or college, she
00:02:50
was late to learn music, fed up with
being behind the lens, taking pictures
00:02:54
and capturing memories of musicians
doing things that she wanted to do.
00:02:58
So she picked up the guitar.
00:03:00
Mae opens up about her personal
journey, discussing the challenges she
00:03:04
faced growing up in New York city, her
struggles as a teenager and how these
00:03:08
experiences have shaped her music.
00:03:10
She delves into the themes of
forgiveness, growth, and the
00:03:13
healing power of songwriting.
00:03:15
Specifically highlighting tracks from her
recently released album, I Might Be Grown.
00:03:20
Mae also shares her thoughts on
the evolving music industry, the
00:03:23
importance of building genuine
connections with fans, and her dream
00:03:26
of traveling the country in an RV.
00:03:29
She also plays two
songs for us at the end.
00:03:31
Hopefully you will get a sense
of what drew me into her when I
00:03:33
first heard her on that playlist.
00:03:37
It doesn't have to be rainy outside.
00:03:39
Here'seMay Krell of Brooklyn, New York.
00:03:42
Let's dive in.
00:03:45
Hi, Mae Nice to meet you.
00:03:47
Thanks for
00:03:48
joining.
00:03:48
Mae Krell: Hi, thanks for
having me, nice to meet you.
00:03:51
Jason English (Host): And you're,
uh, you're calling in today
00:03:52
from, uh, your home in, uh, New
00:03:54
York
00:03:54
city,
00:03:54
Mae Krell: Yes, in
00:03:56
Jason English (Host): In Brooklyn.
00:03:57
Um, and you grew up in Hell's Kitchen.
00:03:59
Is that, is that
00:04:00
what I've
00:04:01
Mae Krell: Yeah, in the city, I
didn't go too far, just like switched
00:04:04
boroughs to somewhere where I can
have a yard and a little bit more
00:04:07
Jason English (Host): That's good.
00:04:08
And you spent a little time in Utah,
which I thought was interesting.
00:04:11
Was that, I think you said,
00:04:12
was that like a
00:04:13
boarding situation?
00:04:14
Like,
00:04:15
uh,
00:04:16
Mae Krell: Um.
00:04:18
I got shipped to one of those,
like, troubled teen centers.
00:04:21
I feel like there's more
about it online now.
00:04:23
Like, with Paris Hilton's documentary.
00:04:25
And I think Netflix put out a recent one
as well that I've been meaning to watch.
00:04:29
But, um, yeah, at the
time it was definitely not
00:04:33
Jason English (Host): you know,
Colorado to me is like the
00:04:36
beautiful West and then Utah is also
beautiful, but it's like a different
00:04:40
planet.
00:04:41
Mae Krell: no, I
00:04:41
Jason English (Host): but I'm
sure you, you probably didn't,
00:04:43
you probably didn't see much of it
00:04:44
though, right?
00:04:44
Mae Krell: Now, just like the little
section that we were at, and then we did
00:04:49
go on a Moab trip, so I got to see Moab.
00:04:51
I've been back since.
00:04:52
I love Colorado, it's gorgeous.
00:04:54
Um, and I've been back in Utah to like
travel, and I saw some of the parks
00:04:57
in the south, and definitely agree.
00:04:59
There's one very specific place that I
think of when I think of Utah looking at
00:05:04
a different planet, and it's like the It's
like locally called Moon Landing Road in
00:05:08
southern Utah and it just like looks like
you're on the moon when you get to the end
00:05:11
of this like crazy like eight mile road.
00:05:14
Um, and I show people
photos of it all the time.
00:05:17
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:05:17
Yeah.
00:05:18
Well, that's cool.
00:05:18
That's, and that's different
than Hell's Kitchen, obviously.
00:05:20
But,
00:05:21
Mae Krell: Yeah.
00:05:21
Jason English (Host): but you're, you're
going to be, so you, you know, you
00:05:24
live in New York still, um, but you're
going to be hitting the road soon.
00:05:27
Is this, I know you've toured before,
but is this sort of the first kind
00:05:32
of, Big ish tour to obviously to
promote your first album, right?
00:05:37
So is this, uh, is this
a bigger deal than most
00:05:39
or are you used to something like
00:05:41
Mae Krell: I've toured like longer
routes before, definitely farther out
00:05:45
from home, but I've never done any
sort of even like co headline tour.
00:05:49
So this is the first
shows I've played where.
00:05:52
Like my friend Grace Gardner and
I are like co headlining them.
00:05:55
I've been being out as
like an opening act.
00:05:56
So, it feels like a bigger
deal for that reason.
00:05:59
Um, but, and I am very excited.
00:06:02
I've never been to Montreal.
00:06:03
That one's, it's a city that
I've wanted to check out.
00:06:06
And we have a show out
there, so I'm really excited.
00:06:08
Jason English (Host): that's awesome.
00:06:08
Yeah.
00:06:08
And April's pretty big month, right?
00:06:10
So you're, you're, you're
going on a tour this weekend.
00:06:12
So this is the first week of April
that when we're talking, but it's
00:06:16
this weekend and you're, you're doing
that for a few weeks and then the
00:06:18
album comes out later
00:06:19
this month,
00:06:19
Mae Krell: Yeah, yeah, the
tour starts a week from today.
00:06:22
And then, so like Tuesday, April 9th.
00:06:26
And then the album is out on the 19th, and
we have an album release show in New York.
00:06:30
So we're doing like a very quick
loop, like up to Boston, Montreal,
00:06:34
Toronto, and then kind of through
back into like Chicago, Indianapolis,
00:06:37
Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and back
to New York, all in 10 days.
00:06:41
It's very like stacked back
to back, but I'm excited.
00:06:45
Jason English (Host): so yeah.
00:06:46
How excited are you?
00:06:47
I mean, this has to be a process
that you've been working on for for
00:06:50
quite a bit,
00:06:51
Mae Krell: The album has definitely
been, like, a long, really big project.
00:06:55
I mean, any, like, debut
full length is gonna be.
00:06:58
Um, the tour kind of came about in a
very I don't wanna say accidental, but,
00:07:04
um, I wanted to play an album release
show in New York, and I texted my
00:07:07
friend Grace, who lives down in Philly,
and was like, hey, do you wanna come?
00:07:11
Up to play this show and they were
like, yeah, I would love to like, do
00:07:14
you want to try to play one in Boston?
00:07:15
I've been meaning to play in Boston.
00:07:17
I was like, yeah, I
want to play in Boston.
00:07:18
And we just kind of kept like
snowballing and reaching out to venues.
00:07:22
And, um, the responses were a
lot faster than I'm used to.
00:07:27
I don't know if it's just the time of year
or what, but we booked this whole run,
00:07:32
like in the span of a couple of weeks,
like really, really quick, um, which is
00:07:36
unusual in my experience, but very lucky.
00:07:39
So I am very excited about it.
00:07:41
Jason English (Host): no, that's great.
00:07:42
And you've been sort of dripping
out the individual singles
00:07:45
for the last few months,
00:07:47
right?
00:07:48
Mae Krell: Yeah, Apollo
00:07:49
Jason English (Host): How
long have you, how long?
00:07:50
Yeah.
00:07:50
How long have you been
00:07:51
working on the album?
00:07:52
Okay.
00:07:55
Mae Krell: which was also
quintet, the first single,
00:07:57
um, in like November of 2022.
00:08:03
And then I started recording
the album in like June of 2023.
00:08:08
So it wasn't a super long writing
process, all things considered.
00:08:12
But I also, after Apollo song
was written in, in late 2022.
00:08:17
Kind of very Purposefully and
intentionally was like I'm gonna write
00:08:22
a record like I want to put out a full
length LP And that's what I want to write
00:08:26
with that all in mind and so I think that
that like being that Intentional was what
00:08:31
allowed the writing to kind of come in
what to me felt like a shorter time frame
00:08:35
I may know some people write an album
in two weeks, but that would not be me.
00:08:39
Otherwise and then we did the recording
over the summer of Last year and
00:08:45
started like dropping out the singles
and Late september was the first one.
00:08:50
So it's it's been
00:08:53
It'll be like september like late
september through late april as
00:08:56
like an album cycle which I don't
know how many months that is but
00:08:59
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:09:00
All right.
00:09:01
No, that's good.
00:09:02
That's good.
00:09:03
So I came across your stuff.
00:09:04
Um, uh, I'm a big follower of, uh, this
playlist on YouTube called Indie Folk
00:09:10
Central.
00:09:11
Uh, yeah.
00:09:13
And, um, you know, it's one of
those things where they play
00:09:16
so much, so much great music.
00:09:18
And, you know, I'll look at the,
you know, look at the screen when
00:09:21
it's on the television and I'll
pick up the artists and I'll look
00:09:24
them up on Spotify or whatever.
00:09:25
And, uh, um, yours was just distinct,
uh, among, uh, All the other sounds, you
00:09:32
know, it's just like the soft delicate
sort of, um, it's like what I envision the
00:09:38
perfect music to be on a, uh, you know,
don't think this is the wrong way, but
00:09:42
like a rainy cloudy day, like at a coffee
00:09:45
shop, you know?
00:09:46
Mae Krell: Yes.
00:09:46
No, that is the best compliment.
00:09:47
I'm like, what are you
gonna take it the wrong way?
00:09:48
I love that.
00:09:50
Jason English (Host): So anyway, I was
like, okay, she seems really interesting.
00:09:53
Uh, yeah, she seems very interesting.
00:09:55
And so I started following
you and obviously listening.
00:09:57
And, um, so anyway, that that's
the, that's how I came across,
00:10:00
uh, your stuff, I guess.
00:10:02
And I think in another interview, you've
talked about just the whole process
00:10:07
of being an independent artist and
getting your name out there that it's
00:10:10
a, it's a complete numbers game and,
uh, the hustle that it requires to, you
00:10:15
know, basically just cold call and cold
email and cold DM, probably all these.
00:10:21
Playlist curators.
00:10:22
And I don't know if you did
that with Indie Folk Central.
00:10:25
Um, but whatever that worked, uh,
however they found, found you out.
00:10:29
It worked for me.
00:10:30
Um, but yeah, talk, talk
about, talk about that.
00:10:34
Like, is that something you signed
up for, uh, when you got into this
00:10:38
or was that, has that been kind of a
surprise on, on what that process looks
00:10:42
like to, to get your name out there?
00:10:45
Mae Krell: So, yeah, I, I love Indie Folk
Central, I listen to their compilations
00:10:48
as well, um, and I think I just submitted
through like their site, um, and Rufus
00:10:53
was kind enough to like the songs and
want to add some of them, which is
00:10:56
great, and I've done like two of their
like compilation albums on Spotify
00:11:00
now as well, which has been really
cool, um, the promotion aspect and the
00:11:06
way of going about it is definitely
something that I feel like is constantly.
00:11:10
evolving and something that I'm learning
what works and what doesn't and what's
00:11:15
worth putting your time into and what
isn't because a lot of Playlists like
00:11:20
there's a value in everything but a lot
of playlists specifically on like Spotify,
00:11:23
which is a big focus that people put
on Kind of only yields like a passive
00:11:29
listenership And I think that can be great
depending on What your genre of music is
00:11:35
and your choice and your goals, but it
that doesn't feel You to me, the more I
00:11:42
kind of try to choose and internalize,
like, what do I want in my career?
00:11:46
What do I want in making music?
00:11:47
And a passive listener base that
like doesn't really care about the
00:11:52
lyrics or have much of a connection
to anything past the sound of the
00:11:55
song isn't really what I'm going for.
00:11:58
So if I only have a limited
amount of time to spend.
00:12:01
Promoting in a certain way like that over
time has been less and less the direction
00:12:04
that I've been going And I think that
Indie Folk Central specifically is one
00:12:08
of those exceptions where sure they have
a good listenership on Spotify But they
00:12:13
make these compilations on YouTube where
people actually pay attention to the songs
00:12:16
and they ask you to send a little blurb
about The song and I think it's a cool
00:12:20
in between like a cross of This is still
a way to reach people, but it's also a
00:12:25
way to reach people who might actually
care to then follow along with you as an
00:12:29
artist, rather than just like a playlist
that someone shuffles and doesn't look at.
00:12:33
Jason English (Host): Right.
00:12:34
Well, you know, I started this podcast
just a few months ago and I've talked to
00:12:38
a fair number of people since it's not
surprising, I guess, but one of the pieces
00:12:42
of feedback I've gotten is, um, you know,
obviously everybody wants, you know, tens
00:12:47
of millions of streams and, you know,
to headline all these big shows and all
00:12:50
that, uh, or like most people, like that
would be the goal, but actually a lot
00:12:55
of these independent artists that I've
talked to, um, They're completely happy
00:12:59
and satisfied with the loyal fan base.
00:13:03
Like, like you were talking about, like
the loyal fan base that will go and see
00:13:07
them or host them at a, at a house show
or go and, and, and, and watch them in a
00:13:13
listening room, you know, that actually
want to like have a, have a relationship
00:13:18
with them as much as you can, you know,
virtually or like a fan and artist should,
00:13:23
that's, you know, healthy and normal.
00:13:24
Um, they actually.
00:13:26
Prefer that, uh, as long as obviously
they can make a living and, you know,
00:13:30
pay the bills and, and, and, and do what
they love to do, which I was kind of
00:13:34
surprised because I thought, you know,
every artist, you know, the end goal
00:13:37
would be to, you know, I don't know,
be, uh, headline, headline the big show.
00:13:42
Like I said, is that
00:13:44
is that where your head's at?
00:13:45
Mae Krell: I think so, um, for
sure, like that's very much where
00:13:49
I've developed to over time.
00:13:51
But I also think that different artists
fanbases are just a different vibe.
00:13:56
Um, like I, I went to the Zach Brian
show a couple of nights ago in Brooklyn.
00:14:00
I love him.
00:14:01
I love his recent self titled album.
00:14:03
It's so good.
00:14:04
And his fan base is so attentive,
um, in a way that I feel like shows
00:14:09
that that size typically aren't.
00:14:11
And there's a couple select artists that
I feel like I've seen live at different
00:14:16
sizes, like maybe bigger than like a
club show, but not as big as an arena.
00:14:19
Um, and it's kind of a lot of them
are like some of my current favorite
00:14:23
artists that I'm so attentive to that.
00:14:25
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:14:26
Mae Krell: Overall, fan base
is very engaged and attentive.
00:14:29
And so I think in an ideal world,
like you can headline the big show
00:14:33
and also have your fan base be the
type that is attentive and cares.
00:14:37
But I think that that usually requires a
really slow come up rather than a really
00:14:41
fast overnight overnight in big quotes.
00:14:44
But the, the, the like kind of
new age, like overnight success or
00:14:49
whatever, where like a song does
really well on Tik Tok or like on.
00:14:53
Reels or somewhere else and suddenly
everybody knows this one song of yours.
00:14:58
I don't think that necessarily translates
to a dedicated fan base a lot of the
00:15:02
time because they're dedicated to one
single song they came across recently.
00:15:06
So when there's been a kind of like a
handful of different moments of that
00:15:10
success that kind of jumps up over time
and I think that's what you see with these
00:15:13
artists that are bigger but have that
really dedicated fan base, I think that's
00:15:17
what creates the cross in between the two.
00:15:21
And it's a lot of luck, and it's
a lot of talent, and it's a lot of
00:15:23
dedication, and a lot of great songs.
00:15:25
I feel like they're required for that.
00:15:28
Um, but that's the ideal to me,
is getting to a point where I can
00:15:32
obviously make a living doing this, but
can also play the big shows and have
00:15:37
people come and be really dedicated.
00:15:38
And I think it also
gives you a lot of power.
00:15:41
as a large artist as well when your
fan base is that dedicated to like put
00:15:44
the spotlight on new artists because
if your fans are that dedicated to you
00:15:47
they're also going to be dedicated to
someone that you bring on to open the
00:15:50
show and that also is like a really
big power to hold in your hands i would
00:15:55
imagine as like a big artist like that
00:15:58
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:15:58
And speaking of that, aren't you
going to open for a Harrison storm?
00:16:02
Mae Krell: yes yeah yeah i'm so excited
yeah on the 24th um in new york at
00:16:07
mercury lunch my favorite venue that's
my favorite like small new york venue
00:16:11
Jason English (Host): so
he's, he's pretty big.
00:16:12
I think he's got like a
million monthly listeners or
00:16:15
something like that.
00:16:15
Mae Krell: Yeah, I was like, kind
of, I think in shock because I had
00:16:18
heard of him before and I think I had
like one or two of his songs saved.
00:16:21
Um, but I didn't realize like how
big of a following he actually had.
00:16:25
I think because he's Australian.
00:16:27
So like, for him to have
the reach he has in the U.
00:16:29
S.
00:16:30
and be from a different country, I would
imagine the numbers have to be that big
00:16:33
because he probably had to build up a fan
base in Australia first before getting
00:16:36
over to like another country's reach.
00:16:39
Um, but I'm very excited.
00:16:41
I've heard really good things about him.
00:16:42
His live show and all the videos I've seen
have looked really cool, so I'm stoked
00:16:45
to open and then be able to watch it.
00:16:48
Jason English (Host): No, that's great.
00:16:49
So back to what the point you were making
about the, like the Zach, Brian example.
00:16:53
So obviously you're, you're
going to learn a lot, right.
00:16:56
Uh, once this album comes out
about the process and I'm sure
00:16:59
you'll, um, make mistakes and,
and respond and react and adjust.
00:17:05
But at this point, what are the two
or three things that you're like,
00:17:08
okay, for me to sort of build that
slow role, you know, in the, in that
00:17:13
loyalty, what are the two or three
things that you're, you're like, I
00:17:15
have to do, I'm going to have to do
like this year to, uh, to do that.
00:17:20
Mae Krell: Write good songs.
00:17:23
That's definitely important.
00:17:25
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:17:26
Mae Krell: I think continuing to
like foster the relationships that
00:17:30
I have with the fans that already
exist and being aware of how sacred
00:17:35
and special that is, because I think
that that's something that people can
00:17:38
lose sight of often and um, When a
00:17:43
Jason English (Host): what are some,
what are, what are, sorry, what
00:17:45
are some tangible examples of that?
00:17:47
Mae Krell: Like, there's a girl who
I met, I want to say she lives in
00:17:51
Chicago, who had me draw something
for her to get tattooed, and then I
00:17:57
got a message like two or three months
later with a picture of something that
00:18:00
I drew, like tattooed on her ankle.
00:18:03
Or, um, this last, the tour that I was on
last year, opening for Ethan Jewell, who
00:18:08
is like a great friend of mine and the
most wonderful musician and person ever.
00:18:12
His fan base is so dedicated, and
so There were some fans who came to
00:18:17
the shows that hadn't either known
my music before or like found out
00:18:21
about it from the tour announcement.
00:18:23
And they brought little
bracelets they handmade with like
00:18:25
their favorite songs on them.
00:18:27
Or like a lyric, as like a gift.
00:18:28
And you're like, you care.
00:18:30
Like you really care about this.
00:18:31
And to be then aware of that person and
um, You know, like there's certain kids
00:18:36
that like, they'll comment on like,
something on my Instagram and I'm like,
00:18:39
I know who you are, like, I know which
city you're in, I know which venue I met
00:18:42
you at, I remember this, I remember you
brought your dad and he was wearing this
00:18:45
flannel shirt, or like this other thing.
00:18:46
And they really appreciate that you look
at them as real people, because they are.
00:18:51
But I think that that's an experience
that as a fan you don't get very often.
00:18:55
Like I can, Kind of feel that from my
end when I'm a fan of someone as well,
00:18:59
like I just feel like a number in a
room so much of the time and you're
00:19:03
not, you know, that you're the only
reason that someone can make a living.
00:19:06
And so to to make sure that people
are aware that you appreciate what
00:19:09
they do for you Even if that's just
like posting on their instagram
00:19:12
story or sending it to their friend
like that makes a big difference,
00:19:14
too Even at a bigger artist level.
00:19:17
It still makes a big difference I found
artists with hundreds of thousands of
00:19:20
streams that I hadn't heard of before
because someone I know posted a song
00:19:23
and I was Like wait, this is really
really good And then became a fan of
00:19:26
them More like it was on someone's
playlist in the car and I like saved it.
00:19:30
So any sort of
00:19:33
Sharing music in like a real tangible
way I think has just as much if
00:19:37
not more value than like, you know,
the other, the stuff that people
00:19:40
expect is supposed to be helpful.
00:19:44
Jason English (Host): Okay.
00:19:44
So write good songs, do the little
things with fans, you know, that
00:19:48
kind of build that camaraderie.
00:19:50
What, uh, what else?
00:19:51
Mae Krell: probably try
to reach more of them.
00:19:54
Um, the internet is, I
struggle with that a lot.
00:19:58
Um, just from a time perspective, I
think, like I, I have a full time job.
00:20:04
Um, I have dogs and a
life to keep up with and.
00:20:10
I, I have one of my roommates, uh,
who's a really good friend of mine has
00:20:14
been helping with the PR for the album.
00:20:15
So like they've written like
the press releases and sent
00:20:17
out some stuff to people.
00:20:19
Um, and one of my best friends makes
those collages that we put on Instagram,
00:20:23
like when we post the stories and stuff.
00:20:25
But in the general sense,
like I, I do all of it myself.
00:20:28
Like I'm laying in bed at night instead
of going to bed, sending emails to people
00:20:32
about opening shows that I see announced
or, and like sending these DMs or doing
00:20:37
these things or responding to this thing.
00:20:39
And.
00:20:40
Um, I'm constantly exhausted, and so to
find time to then film and make videos
00:20:47
to be able to be as consistent as you
have to be on a lot of these platforms is
00:20:51
really tough, but I know it's like a, a
necessary thing, so I've been trying to
00:20:55
be better about it and readjust my kind
of commitments to make more time for it.
00:21:01
I think that's definitely
something I want to be doing
00:21:03
more.
00:21:05
Jason English (Host): I think I have
an idea, but give us a sense of like
00:21:07
the numbers involved with those emails.
00:21:09
Like, are we talking like a few dozen
over the course of a month or is it
00:21:12
hundreds and hundreds?
00:21:13
Yeah.
00:21:18
Mae Krell: not all at once.
00:21:18
It's like, oh, this tour was just
announced and there was no opener
00:21:22
and the rooms are a size that
like, I could like, make a pretty
00:21:26
sufficient help with my draw.
00:21:28
Like if the rooms are like 200 and I know
I can draw 30 to 40 people in each city
00:21:32
on this show, like this tour, it's worth
shooting an email over to management
00:21:35
and being like, okay, if you don't
have someone confirmed, like consider.
00:21:38
And I've gotten a handful of like,
local opening slots through doing
00:21:41
that, it's surprisingly effective.
00:21:43
I didn't really expect that at all.
00:21:45
Um, but it's, it's more like, just
constantly checking like, venue
00:21:49
websites and like, just seeing what
comes up on your socials to see.
00:21:53
Cause I, as much as the internet is
a really powerful tool for reaching
00:21:58
people, I really have found the most
success in opening slots, I think.
00:22:04
That's like a very classic thing that
people like undervalue now But if the fan
00:22:08
base that you're playing to is dedicated
and they trust the artists that they're
00:22:12
coming to see enough to bring them to
someone new then they come in with a
00:22:16
really like open like perspective of like
maybe this person is gonna be someone
00:22:21
that I'm gonna really enjoy and You know
people come and they buy your merch and
00:22:25
they come talk to you and you then see
them starting to like your Posts and
00:22:28
following you on socials and there's a
really tangible growth from that If you're
00:22:33
the type of artist that can harness it,
because I think that there's a certain
00:22:37
genre and like vibe and way of performing
and stage banter that benefits you a lot
00:22:44
more in those situations than others.
00:22:46
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:22:47
Yeah.
00:22:47
Oh, that's good.
00:22:48
Um, so I think on another interview to
you, this was a couple of years ago.
00:22:52
You were, you were sort of Well, I
don't know if debating is the right
00:22:57
term, but you were saying listen, I'm
in New York I grew up here apart from my
00:23:01
little stint in Utah You know, I'm being
here my whole life and you I think you
00:23:06
indicated like listen I want to I want
to I want to go to Nashville, right?
00:23:10
So is that something that
is still top of mind?
00:23:15
Did you try to do that at any point
since since since then and then
00:23:19
sort of a follow up question is?
00:23:22
Uh, What's it like being an
independent artist in New York?
00:23:25
Is, you know, is it, um, cause
I live in Atlanta and you know,
00:23:30
I, I, I see what that's like.
00:23:31
And I'm just wondering, you know,
is, is the big city, all that it's
00:23:35
cracked up to be, or is it like
a lot harder than it, than it,
00:23:37
Mae Krell: Uh, really Doug, a couple of
years ago, God, um, Nashville, I wanted
00:23:42
to be from Nashville before the pandemic.
00:23:44
I was planning on moving down
there and then COVID hit.
00:23:48
And so, like, everything changed, and by
the time that things were kind of starting
00:23:53
to go back to normal, my life was really
vastly different than it was before.
00:23:57
I think the biggest thing that stopped me
from moving down to Nashville, honestly,
00:24:00
was I work in the service industry.
00:24:02
And to make enough money to be
able to exist and fund music, I'd
00:24:07
probably have to bartend down there.
00:24:09
And as a sober person, I really
don't wanna exclusively bartend.
00:24:12
Like I work as a server and
a bartender now I do both at
00:24:14
the restaurants I work at.
00:24:15
And I think I would hate
having to bartend exclusively.
00:24:18
And, um, knowing that the cost of living
is pretty high, like it was just like
00:24:22
a technical adult decision to like not
move down there , um, unfortunately.
00:24:26
Um, but I have friends down there
and I, I enjoy it when I visit.
00:24:31
I don't know if it necessarily would be
the right fit for me now, looking back.
00:24:35
Um, I write everything, I
release pretty much on my own.
00:24:40
There's one song on my album
that my little sister and I
00:24:42
wrote together, and that's it.
00:24:44
Um, and Nashville is super
collaborative and I think that's
00:24:46
wonderful, but for my own project I
don't think it would do me justice.
00:24:50
In like a writing way.
00:24:51
Um, And I just don't think it's
the right fit, and that's okay.
00:24:56
Um, I'm very dead set on leaving New York.
00:25:00
Not for necessarily anywhere
specific, just leaving.
00:25:02
Um, and I, I think it's the music
scene, the way that everything is
00:25:07
in New York, and I'd like to imagine
other big cities, but I don't know,
00:25:11
because I only know what it's like here.
00:25:13
Everything changes so often.
00:25:15
You know, like, I walked by the block that
I grew up on today, and, like, half the
00:25:19
businesses that I remember being there
a couple years ago aren't there anymore.
00:25:22
And, like, even the really famous one
across the street that was, like, a
00:25:25
big, like, thing, like, closed down
while I was living there as a kid.
00:25:29
And neighborhoods change, and I
think the music scene is affected
00:25:33
by that, just like everything else.
00:25:35
Um I think that the music scene in New
York really thrives in kind of a weird way
00:25:40
in like the high school and college scene.
00:25:44
When I was in high school I used
to go to all these great shows in
00:25:47
people's like yards and um, like
places farther into Brooklyn and in
00:25:52
Rockaway Beach and it was so much fun.
00:25:54
And I didn't play music at the time.
00:25:55
I wish I had.
00:25:56
I think I would have
had a really great time.
00:25:58
But I loved going to these shows and I
had such an amazing experience doing that.
00:26:03
And then I can't speak to college, I
didn't go to school, but I know that
00:26:05
a lot of kids who go to like a lot of
the like NYU and kind of like music
00:26:10
programs say that they really enjoy that.
00:26:12
Um, I think that it's, it's not
a very friendly music scene.
00:26:21
And I, there's a lot of things
you could blame that on.
00:26:24
I feel like I end up kind of settling on.
00:26:27
The thought that people think of New
York as this very individualized place
00:26:32
and this individualized culture of
like, I come here to like, hustle and
00:26:36
get what I want and grow and whatever.
00:26:38
And I think that that's a very
like, outsider perspective to have.
00:26:41
Like, as someone who grew up here,
that's never been my experience
00:26:43
of New York, until I started
hanging around transplants.
00:26:47
Um, and I think that that really seeps its
way into everything, music scene included.
00:26:53
And it's really tough to meet people
that are just kind and want to make
00:26:59
music and want to be around you
because they like what you're doing
00:27:02
and not because of numbers or aren't
looking for all this underlying stuff.
00:27:06
And then, I mean, the, my closest
collaborator, my producer, Jake, Jacob
00:27:12
Leventhal, is also from New York.
00:27:14
Just like I, we didn't meet
like as kids or anything.
00:27:17
Like, I'm sure we've crossed paths because
the world here is so small, but he also
00:27:22
grew up here and a lot of his friends
that are musicians also grew up here.
00:27:26
And it's a lot of these like people who
are still trying to foster community in
00:27:30
a way that's really special, but in a
place where it seems to be very difficult.
00:27:34
Um, I really struggle with it.
00:27:36
I'm constantly looking to meet
more musicians and I find that I
00:27:40
have more musician friends spread
around the U S and I do here.
00:27:43
Even though I meet more people
here than I do other places.
00:27:47
Jason English (Host): Well in
terms of like wanting to be the
00:27:49
musician and the artist that you
want to be, do you think you're.
00:27:52
Do you think it's advantageous to you
that you're not part of Nashville or
00:27:56
Austin, you know, or, or whatever, and
that you're, you are in New York, or do
00:28:00
you think there's, you've got more work
to do to, to sort of get, get out there
00:28:04
and, and, and meet the right people.
00:28:07
Mae Krell: I think that it's, for me,
and maybe this'll change, or maybe this
00:28:12
is an incorrect perspective, but what I
feel like I'm missing the most is time.
00:28:17
And that time can be bought by a lower
cost of living, or by, I don't know,
00:28:22
someone who wants to give me money.
00:28:23
Like, but more realistically, by having
more time to like, put into learning
00:28:29
how to play my instrument better
and picking up, like, my girlfriend
00:28:32
got me a banjo for my birthday.
00:28:34
I really want to, like, start properly
playing it and I really want to play
00:28:36
mandolin and kind of spend time really
focusing in on a lot of these things
00:28:42
that I'd really like to do that I think
will make me a better musician and
00:28:45
a better writer and a better artist.
00:28:47
And the issue that I run into is
just I have to work a certain amount
00:28:51
of hours to afford to live, and
I have to work a certain amount
00:28:55
of additional hours to afford to
be able to record and make music.
00:28:59
On top of it and doing all of that
doesn't leave that much time to be
00:29:04
a musician Unfortunately, and it's a
constant struggle that I go through.
00:29:08
Um, a constant crisis that I
have I don't really think that
00:29:13
Being somewhere else will help.
00:29:15
I think it might hurt it
just in a technical way.
00:29:18
Like my experiences in restaurants,
New York restaurants have a really
00:29:22
high ceiling of where you can go.
00:29:24
And I've been in the industry
for a handful of years now.
00:29:27
And I just keep kind of
like inching my way up.
00:29:29
And as I do that, I buy
myself a little bit more time.
00:29:32
Like where I worked right before
COVID, I had to make the amount
00:29:36
I would have needed to live.
00:29:37
I would have had less time than I do now.
00:29:39
Um, and so it's, I feel like
if anything, I would feel.
00:29:44
More isolated somewhere where there
was more to do because I'd feel like
00:29:47
I'd be able to do even less of it You
know, like there's so much there's
00:29:51
so many shows going on in Nashville
and so many places to go and so many
00:29:54
people to meet And that's so cool I
feel like I enjoy it more when I visit
00:29:58
because I can visit and put my head a
hundred percent in that mindset Because
00:30:02
when I'm a visitor That's what I am.
00:30:04
I'm not working as a server.
00:30:07
I'm not making a living.
00:30:08
I'm on there As a visitor
for like a week or two.
00:30:12
So I can spend that time like
really involved in the local scene.
00:30:15
Whereas I think if I lived there
and I had to keep up with all these
00:30:19
other pieces, I probably would end
up doing less than I would like to.
00:30:22
And that would maybe end up
more isolating, but that's all
00:30:26
from an outside perspective.
00:30:27
I don't, I don't know
what it would actually be
00:30:30
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:30:30
Yeah.
00:30:31
Well, if it wasn't New York, where would
you, where would you want to be right now?
00:30:35
Mae Krell: Honestly, I want to be in some
sort of vehicle in the middle of nowhere.
00:30:41
Jason English (Host): Oh, wow.
00:30:42
There you go.
00:30:43
Mae Krell: I own an RV or like a,
or like a school bus or something.
00:30:47
I lived in, um, a rooftop tent with
Apollo for three and a half months on
00:30:51
top of my car and had the most amazing
time ever and that's when I started
00:30:55
writing the album, um, originally.
00:30:59
I need, I feel, I don't
own a lot of things.
00:31:01
I need very little, like, to, to be happy.
00:31:04
Um, I definitely, I feel like I own
more guitars than I own anything else.
00:31:09
But, um, That's my like, ideal scenario.
00:31:14
Yeah, and now Vanjo here
and hopefully Mendelyn
00:31:16
soon.
00:31:17
Yeah, I like the idea of being, being
able to have some sort of home base
00:31:21
that can travel where I can move around
and I can see places or be places in
00:31:27
kind of like a slow travel way where
I can integrate into a local scene and
00:31:33
spend time somewhere but not have to
like so heavily commit to being there
00:31:36
that if I end up unhappy I can't leave.
00:31:38
I have a lot of like
commitment issues in that way.
00:31:42
I think, um, not really.
00:31:44
I didn't go to school, so I
didn't leave New York for college.
00:31:48
I've never really had like a
temporary like leave from where
00:31:52
I'm from, like, By my own choice.
00:31:56
And I think that that's created a lot
of fear of like committing to somewhere
00:32:00
new and then being unhappy and then
having to figure out a way to leave.
00:32:03
Um, and so instead I'm like, well,
how can I cross in the middle and go
00:32:08
places without being trapped to them?
00:32:11
And there's so many like seasonal
jobs and things that you can do.
00:32:15
So that's, that's kind of my, my
short term, short term, longterm plan.
00:32:19
Ideally by next, next year
I can get out of here.
00:32:23
Jason English (Host): Okay.
00:32:24
Well, cool.
00:32:25
Well, um, so here's, here's the
great thing about music, right?
00:32:29
Uh, I'm almost 50.
00:32:33
I'm a male, almost 50 lives in the South.
00:32:36
And, uh, I feel connected to you who
is, you know, probably in her twenties,
00:32:41
I would imagine still, is that fair?
00:32:43
Mae Krell: Yeah, I'm 25
00:32:44
Jason English (Host): Female in her
twenties that, uh, lives in New York.
00:32:49
I'm a Christian.
00:32:50
I think you're Jewish.
00:32:51
Right?
00:32:52
So, so the opposites, uh, there's
a lot of opposites going on, right?
00:32:57
Um, but the music I feel
connected to you, right?
00:33:00
And I think that's the, that's
the brilliance of music in
00:33:03
general, but like, especially the
music that I've heard from you.
00:33:07
Um, so that's awesome.
00:33:09
And, uh, and I think the, the
songs that I've, that I've heard,
00:33:13
uh, off the new album are great.
00:33:14
And so that's, that's what I
want to jump into now, I guess.
00:33:17
Uh, the new album is called, I think.
00:33:19
Parentheses.
00:33:20
I might be grown.
00:33:21
So there's a little bit
of hesitation there.
00:33:23
Is that
00:33:24
Mae Krell: Yes, 100%.
00:33:26
For sure.
00:33:28
Jason English (Host): What's the,
uh, what's the genesis of that
00:33:30
Mae Krell: Um,
00:33:31
Jason English (Host):
like, like that title?
00:33:33
Mae Krell: yeah.
00:33:33
So the title is the closing lyric
of the album from the song Grown.
00:33:39
I like the idea of titling the record
something that wasn't necessarily a
00:33:43
track name, but kind of referenced one.
00:33:45
That was more of like a situation.
00:33:49
And after kind of going through
and getting a handful of options,
00:33:52
I landed in that direction.
00:33:54
Um, one grown is one of my, if not my
favorite song on the album, but I think
00:34:01
that a lot of, a lot of this, this album,
and really the overall concept of it is
00:34:07
this idea of growing up when you didn't
plan to, or you didn't think you would.
00:34:11
Um, And you just weren't really prepared
for any of it and how that feels
00:34:15
because the experiences of growing
up in that kind of like coming of age
00:34:19
are similar but different for everyone
but the ages at which you experience
00:34:23
them can be vastly different and that
can be for a lot of different reasons.
00:34:29
And I know that like, at 25, I'm
not grown up, I know I would like
00:34:32
to hope that I'm gonna keep growing
and changing and that this isn't
00:34:35
necessarily where I'm gonna land
forever, um, I'd like to believe that.
00:34:39
But there's also that piece of
like, well I'm not a kid anymore,
00:34:42
and I am settled into some sort of
adulthood, and that's something that
00:34:47
I never really thought I would have.
00:34:49
It's like that, that piece of like, living
longer than you ever thought you would.
00:34:52
And then somehow having more time
makes you feel like you don't
00:34:55
have enough because suddenly your
life is big and you want more time
00:34:58
than you ever thought you had.
00:34:59
Um, and it's this constant like
back and forth, um, feeling, but
00:35:05
having the album title land on,
like, I don't think I'm grown.
00:35:10
I don't think that naming the album
grown would have done it justice.
00:35:12
I don't think that the album is a
solid and, you know, And full thought
00:35:18
through, like, thought in that way.
00:35:20
I think that having it hesitate a little
bit is what makes it feel right, and
00:35:24
what makes it feel like it fits, kind of.
00:35:27
Jason English (Host): Okay.
00:35:28
No, that's cool.
00:35:30
I'm 50.
00:35:30
I don't think I'm grown
00:35:31
Mae Krell: There you go.
00:35:32
Jason English (Host): what it's worth.
00:35:33
So
00:35:34
Mae Krell: My mom says that all the time.
00:35:35
She's like, I'm 62 and I'm still
growing, I'm still changing all the time.
00:35:39
And I'm like, yeah mom, yeah you
00:35:40
are.
00:35:47
Jason English (Host): to.
00:35:47
follow you on Instagram, you're, you've
started to not only sprinkle some of the
00:35:50
singles out into the, into the universe,
but you're releasing these little excerpts
00:35:56
and little, I don't know what they're
called, but like little commentary, if
00:36:00
that's fair on, on some of the songs.
00:36:02
And so I want to read, uh, you did
this about a week or so ago, uh,
00:36:07
you, you titled it, um, to begin.
00:36:11
Uh, and it's, it's sort of like
this notion of, you know, beginning
00:36:14
stages of a healthy, healthy process.
00:36:19
Uh, you talk about like a messy start
and then, and then you say that the
00:36:24
sentiments of having to forgive your
younger self for actions that ended up
00:36:27
hurting you deep, hurting you deeply
as you grew up always seem difficult
00:36:33
for me and it still is, right?
00:36:37
So talk to us about that.
00:36:39
Mae Krell: Yeah, uh, to begin
is, is track two off the album.
00:36:43
So what I've been doing is as I've
been putting out the singles, I
00:36:47
did these little like collages
that Caro and my friend made with
00:36:50
like the storyline of the songs.
00:36:52
And then now that we had like a
certain amount of time left between
00:36:56
the last single we put out in the
album, we've been putting out these
00:36:59
little explanations of the songs.
00:37:02
The remaining songs that aren't singles
to kind of give an opportunity to
00:37:05
have like the narrative of those.
00:37:06
So like I, I have one on my desktop that I
need to write and post, um, for tomorrow.
00:37:12
And to begin as I wrote it
in like February of 2023.
00:37:20
So it was kind of like in the
middle process of writing the album.
00:37:25
And it kind of became like.
00:37:29
The opening.
00:37:30
So there's the intro track, which is
Garden 2, and then to begin kind of
00:37:34
is the opening of the album and like
you mentioned like it's meant to be
00:37:37
the kind of like uncomfortable messy
start of both the project and the
00:37:41
storyline that we're kind of coming into.
00:37:44
Um, I made a lot of
mistakes when I was younger.
00:37:49
I think It's a product of struggling
really deeply, having a little bit too
00:37:54
much access to freedom, living in a big
city where there just, there's everything
00:37:58
around you all the time, and also just
00:38:00
not really thinking that I
would ever have to live with or
00:38:05
experience the consequences that
would come from my own actions.
00:38:08
Like, I just didn't really think I
would stick around very long, and so I,
00:38:12
I just never thought that I would have
to internally deal with any of what.
00:38:18
I was putting myself through, um, and
so to begin to me feels like kind of a,
00:38:26
a way of acknowledging other people did
things to hurt me, but I put myself in the
00:38:31
situations for those things to be done.
00:38:34
And now I'm distance from that and
I'm no longer doing those things,
00:38:38
but I still have all of these fears
and anxieties and leftover pain
00:38:43
from stuff that I put myself in.
00:38:45
And how do you, How do you
forgive yourself and move on?
00:38:51
and if you can't Can you at least
ask yourself to start doing it?
00:38:55
And so that's kind of what to
begin as it's saying like the
00:38:57
lyric and there's a lyric in it
if asking to belong is too much.
00:39:02
Can I at least ask to begin?
00:39:04
That's kind of what the lyric that the
song name comes from is so it's just
00:39:07
saying like I don't know if I can promise
That I'm gonna be okay with all this stuff
00:39:12
But I can promise that I'm gonna try to
be and like that's gonna have to be enough
00:39:18
Jason English (Host):
Well, that's amazing.
00:39:19
Yeah, that's really good.
00:39:20
Um, what other tracks I imagine I, I know
I, I was the one that brought, brought
00:39:26
that up, but what other songs kind of
stick out to you, um, in terms of the,
00:39:31
obviously I'm sure it's the whole album
for you, but, uh, what are the, what are
00:39:35
the one or two other tracks that sort
of represent you the best, do you think?
00:39:40
Um, and, and where you're at and, and what
you want to accomplish with this album?
00:39:44
Mae Krell: Yeah, um, from, I guess,
including all of them, like, not only
00:39:50
the singles or non singles, um, Apollo's
Song and Grown, track 10, track 11, uh,
00:39:57
both of which were singles, kind of feel
like the, the wrap up of the project is
00:40:03
like, here's what we just went through,
here's what we're feeling, here it is
00:40:07
wrapped into like a clean storyline.
00:40:09
Um, They're both really,
really special to me.
00:40:13
It was also the first and last song
that were written for the album.
00:40:15
So I wrote Apollo's song
first and I wrote Grown last.
00:40:18
Um,
00:40:19
Yeah.
00:40:20
and sorry, the puppy is
requesting to be brought back in.
00:40:23
So you can
00:40:24
Is that Apollo or
00:40:24
cut that out.
00:40:25
No, it's the puppy.
00:40:26
Um, but, yeah, I wrote
Come on, here you go.
00:40:34
Go over there.
00:40:35
Um, Apollo's still asleep.
00:40:38
Um Yeah, Apollo's song is kind of this
00:40:45
projection onto my dog of seeing her age
and in turn realizing that I am also aging
00:40:54
and that I will likely continue to age as
my dog gets so old that she passes away.
00:41:01
And when I got her, like, I
didn't think that I would.
00:41:04
would live longer than she did.
00:41:06
I, I just didn't really plan to.
00:41:08
And so that's, that song is kind of like
following that type of idea and, and how
00:41:13
things change and like my best friend is
getting married soon and, and your life
00:41:17
is just suddenly this whole big thing
that you just never really imagined would
00:41:23
be real and that's really, really cool.
00:41:25
And it's also terrifying and it's
also beautiful and everything, you
00:41:30
know, can reach that point, but
you have to stick around for it.
00:41:34
And that's the hard part.
00:41:35
Like, it's gonna get there, but
sticking around through everything
00:41:37
else to get to that point is really
difficult, and like, acknowledging that.
00:41:41
Um, and grown is kind of sitting in
with a lot of fear and anxiety and the
00:41:50
feelings that I have about adulthood and
myself and aging and like the crisis I
00:41:57
have every year when I have a birthday.
00:41:59
Um, and I that that's the one
that I feel like is most Like I'm
00:42:05
most connected to like in this
exact moment But it definitely
00:42:09
can change like as time goes on.
00:42:11
Too hard is also really really special
to me That's the one my little sister
00:42:14
helped me write or helped me finish it
00:42:15
off um And that one started as like a
complete stream of consciousness Like
00:42:20
i'm not writing music and I need to
force myself to write something i'm
00:42:23
gonna play You really simple chords and
just like spit out what I'm feeling.
00:42:29
And then it got, it developed from
that into something bigger and um,
00:42:35
into like a really, I, I think probably
the most personal song on the whole
00:42:41
project, which says a lot considering
the whole thing is really personal.
00:42:45
Um, but just about this fear of like
being loved and in turn a fear of being
00:42:48
known both by herself and by other people.
00:42:50
I think those are kind of the ones that
I'm most Attached to in this moment.
00:42:57
Jason English (Host): Okay.
00:42:58
So you've alluded to it a few times,
and I don't want to assume anything,
00:43:02
and I'm trying to make the connection
with what you said about you didn't
00:43:05
think you'd outlive Apollo, and then,
you know, possibly, I don't know if
00:43:09
your time in Utah, but like, did you,
did you struggle with sort of, you
00:43:13
know, Suicide or do you think that,
you know, drugs were going to kill you?
00:43:17
Like what, what was, what was the,
00:43:19
Mae Krell: Just like
all, all of the above.
00:43:21
It was going to be anything in my
head that, just anything at all.
00:43:26
I just didn't, I think there was
just so many points in my, my life
00:43:30
when I was younger that I was so
unhappy and I didn't really know why.
00:43:36
Like I couldn't pinpoint it.
00:43:37
Like nothing at times,
nothing was really wrong.
00:43:40
I just felt a certain way.
00:43:42
Before you have, like, the privilege
to get into an office with a doctor
00:43:47
who's kind and understanding and normal,
because unfortunately that's not super
00:43:51
common in my experience, and to have
someone, like, understand and listen
00:43:56
and help figure out what's going on,
you just feel like some sort of alien.
00:44:00
You know, like, when you're the only
person in your immediate surrounding
00:44:04
that's struggling with this, It's
whatever that is, whether it's
00:44:06
like addiction or like suicidal
ideation or depression or anxiety
00:44:12
or anything else, like mood swings.
00:44:14
If nobody else around you is,
is experiencing that to the same
00:44:17
degree and nobody is treating
it as anything other than acting
00:44:21
out, you just kind of feel insane.
00:44:23
And I think that that contributes
a lot to making these like negative
00:44:29
decisions to try to like fix it.
00:44:30
But, you know, like I, I'm like very
like thankful and, um, excited to
00:44:35
live and be sober now, but for a
long time, like when I was younger,
00:44:40
drugs were what kept me alive.
00:44:42
You know, I don't think I would have stuck
around if I didn't have something to make
00:44:45
me feel okay, even though it then got to
a point where it almost killed me later.
00:44:49
And so the followup was, I'm lucky that
I was able to get away from that and
00:44:52
now live a full life without substances.
00:44:55
But there's always, there's that double
edge to everything where sometimes the
00:45:00
things that are really bad for you, keep
you going long enough to find what you.
00:45:03
Needed that is gonna be good for you or to
find the help that you needed to be okay
00:45:08
Jason English (Host): Right.
00:45:09
Did your, did your challenges
happen mostly before the
00:45:12
pandemic
00:45:14
Mae Krell: Yeah, I was
00:45:15
Jason English (Host): was there overlap?
00:45:16
Mae Krell: Mean like here and there I
feel like the primary like my primary
00:45:22
issues like that before they were When
I felt really hopeless like the point
00:45:27
that I was struggling so much that
there was absolutely no hope on the
00:45:30
horizon at all was like in my teenage
years into like Being like, maybe 20.
00:45:36
I got sober for the first time when
I was like, two months shy of 19.
00:45:40
Um, and it's been like, in and out.
00:45:42
And now I feel like I'm in a really
like, solid point of like, almost
00:45:45
three years of sobriety, um, again.
00:45:48
Which is wonderful.
00:45:49
But it was definitely like, primarily
when I was younger, I think once I kind
00:45:54
of was into a solid point of sobriety.
00:45:58
The first time around, I had regained
a sort of like hope for living.
00:46:02
Like my life was getting bigger and I
was like making friends and being around
00:46:07
people who like wanted to be around
me and my family was excited to be
00:46:10
around me and my dog wanted to see me.
00:46:12
And, um, I was able to develop
like genuine friendships with depth
00:46:16
because I was a full person who was
in front of someone and not some
00:46:19
sort of like shell of something.
00:46:21
And.
00:46:22
having like a relapse doesn't necessarily
take that away or change it rather than
00:46:27
when you're constantly in that space
and have never been outside of it.
00:46:30
So I feel like the,
like, I still struggle.
00:46:34
It's not like any of this stuff is
like a, you know, you, you get better
00:46:38
and it switches off, but it's a very
different type of struggle because
00:46:42
there's an awareness that all of it
is can be for something, you know,
00:46:48
like I've had, I can think of a couple
distinct moments that I've had where,
00:46:53
um, mostly music related, that I'm
just kind of like, oh, like all this
00:46:59
hard stuff, like is, is worth something
because it might benefit someone else.
00:47:03
Um, and, and having
00:47:05
that
00:47:05
awareness is what makes the struggle
feel very different to me rather than
00:47:10
just kind of endless and hopeless.
00:47:13
Being able
00:47:13
Jason English (Host): So I think,
uh, I think you had said at one
00:47:16
point that you wrote your first
song, I think when you were 16, even
00:47:19
before you knew how to play guitar.
00:47:21
Um, how did that process of, you know,
kind of leaving your interests as a
00:47:28
hobby and as a job with the, with the,
you know, you used to be a concert,
00:47:32
you know, photographer and all that.
00:47:34
And then you, you kind of tilted
towards the, to the music.
00:47:39
It seems like, you know, the struggles
that you just just that you just
00:47:41
articulated, how much did music play a
role in, um, either distracting you from
00:47:48
from some of that hardship and struggle?
00:47:52
Uh, did it play any role?
00:47:54
I guess I don't want to make an
assumption that it was like the savior
00:47:57
or anything, but like, how do you
think you would have been the artist
00:48:00
and musician that you are today?
00:48:02
Kind of without that struggle.
00:48:03
And then did it, did it help
you kind of get out of that?
00:48:06
And it becomes
00:48:07
over.
00:48:07
Mae Krell: Yeah, I think that I don't
think I would be the same musician that
00:48:11
I am today without the stuff that I've
gone through because so much of what I
00:48:17
write about is in that spirit of like kind
of trying to reach people and especially
00:48:25
for me like teenagers like people love
to joke about like the fan your fan base
00:48:29
being like younger or Whatever, but I
really like cherish the fact that the
00:48:33
fan base that I have are like younger
You Like, you know, at some points,
00:48:37
like, kids and teenagers, a lot of times,
like, queer kids from, like, states where
00:48:41
maybe they can't really be comfortable
or out the same way that they would be
00:48:45
somewhere else, and they see someone
that is grown up compared to them and
00:48:51
living a life that's, like, authentic
and, like, They're just so excited about
00:48:55
that because to them they see hope in it
and like that's so special and so cool
00:48:59
Um, and not something that I ever thought
about before I started making music.
00:49:02
I don't think I like conceptualized
that at all um as like a reality that
00:49:07
could exist um And I think that I'd
probably make very different music if
00:49:15
I hadn't experienced what I did But I
also would be a vastly different person
00:49:20
um And that's a weird thing to think
about because You know, you want to be
00:49:24
like, I'm not my experiences and I'm
not like the things I've struggled with.
00:49:28
And I think it's, they don't, those things
don't necessarily define you, but they do
00:49:34
put you in a place to then use them for
good if you want to, if you're able to.
00:49:38
Um, you know, it would have helped
me as like a 16, 15, 14 year old to
00:49:46
see someone that felt tangible to me
that was like living authentically.
00:49:50
And.
00:49:52
is healthy and has been through
something that I maybe either struggle
00:49:55
with or something similar to and isn't
pretending like they're healed or
00:50:00
fixed from it, but just is Showing some
sort of hope that it can get better.
00:50:04
You know, like I needed that when I was
a kid um and so I think the hope in In
00:50:09
putting yourself through the hard parts
of sharing that is that you're gonna be
00:50:13
that for someone else who really needs it
00:50:15
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:50:16
Well, I talked to another musician
a couple months ago, and she, I was
00:50:20
asking her about, you know, because
she came from a band in Europe.
00:50:25
It was like the ACDC
00:50:26
of women rock in Europe is this crazy,
crazy band called Thunder Mother.
00:50:32
Of all things.
00:50:33
Uh, but now she's in Nashville.
00:50:35
She's Irish and she's in Nashville.
00:50:36
And I was asking her about like the
difference between playing like big,
00:50:40
you know, big shows in Europe versus
like the coffee shops, you know, or
00:50:44
hotel lobbies in and around Nashville.
00:50:46
And she's like, you know what?
00:50:47
Like, like to the point earlier,
it doesn't really matter.
00:50:50
But she's like, if I could just
reach one person, to talk about like
00:50:54
the, cause she was very passionate
about mental health, you know, and
00:50:57
like, uh, self care and all that.
00:50:59
And she's like, you know, it's, it's
always worth it to just hear from
00:51:01
one fan or talk to somebody after a
show that said, you know, that song
00:51:05
or your message or whatever that is,
you know, really, really touched me.
00:51:10
And she's like, that's, that's
kind of what I'm doing it now.
00:51:12
So like, you know, credit to you,
like, you know, good things will happen
00:51:16
based on the songs that you write,
you know, and the music that you make.
00:51:20
Um, But I hope that you can
reach as many people as you can.
00:51:23
Cause like, to your point, those examples,
people need authenticity, you know?
00:51:29
Mae Krell: Yeah.
00:51:29
People are looking for hope in
everything, I think, especially
00:51:33
like now, you know, the world is
very bleak sometimes, or it can be,
00:51:38
and there's so many cool things, you
know, like so many beautiful moments
00:51:45
that you can experience, but you have
to be not so blocked out to them,
00:51:49
and I think that a lot of times when
you are like really struggling with
00:51:52
any sort of mental health issues or.
00:51:54
Maybe something with your family,
or maybe you're going through
00:51:57
something really difficult.
00:51:58
There's kind of like a block that like
exists, like a line that you just, you see
00:52:02
everything like tinted in a different way.
00:52:05
And sometimes you just need
someone to help get you out of it.
00:52:08
I've needed it.
00:52:09
I've found it in music.
00:52:11
I still do so much of the time.
00:52:12
I'm such a like fan, you know, like
as, like of other musicians and um, You
00:52:19
know, like, we'll drive, like, hours to
a show because, you know, it's a solo
00:52:24
tour from a, like, an artist from a
band that I love, and it's like an 80
00:52:27
capacity room for someone who I've seen
play to 2, 000 people, and I'll drive,
00:52:30
like, two, three hours, you know, like,
I, I still am like that, um, just to
00:52:35
care so deeply about, about music that
makes you feel something, and I think
00:52:39
that that's, that's so special, and I
just hope to do that for someone else.
00:52:43
Jason English (Host): No, that's great.
00:52:44
All right.
00:52:45
So last question.
00:52:45
Uh, and I really appreciate your time.
00:52:47
Um, so that, you know, this, this, this
podcast is based on, you know, a show
00:52:52
that I, love that you need to watch called
00:52:54
Mae Krell: I I will watch it.
00:52:57
Jason English (Host): But, you
know, curiosity is a big part of it.
00:52:58
So, uh, it seems like you've experienced a
lot of things in your, in your young life.
00:53:04
Uh, but you, you've also, uh,
I don't know if you've seen
00:53:07
the world, uh, other than Utah,
00:53:10
just kidding.
00:53:11
Um, and you know, some
00:53:12
Mae Krell: a handful, yeah.
00:53:13
Jason English (Host): some spots here
and there, but what, what are you most
00:53:16
curious about at this stage in your life?
00:53:20
Mae Krell: That's a really good question.
00:53:22
I think other people and stories and, and
learning more about people's relationships
00:53:31
to the things that they care about, um,
the things that they don't care about.
00:53:36
Just what, what gets people going and
what keeps them running is something
00:53:41
that I'm always, um, Just learning more
about and wanting to learn more about.
00:53:46
And then I am big, big into
travel and seeing places.
00:53:49
I want to, um, check off my
last couple states in the U.
00:53:53
S.
00:53:54
And then I think I have four or five left.
00:53:57
And then I want to start
seeing other places as well.
00:54:00
So I'm just always curious about
people and their perspectives
00:54:04
and their experiences.
00:54:07
Jason English (Host): All right.
00:54:09
Well, have you been to Georgia?
00:54:10
You should come down to Georgia.
00:54:11
Mae Krell: I've been, very briefly,
I've been through Atlanta very, very
00:54:14
briefly, but I, Georgia is one of the
states that I feel like I've spent,
00:54:18
like, a very minimal amount of time in.
00:54:19
Like, I've been there, and I can be
like, I've been to Georgia, but I
00:54:24
wanna, like, actually make it down
to Georgia, like, properly, you know?
00:54:28
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
00:54:29
No, the venue that you need to
hit up is, uh, is, Eddie's Attic
00:54:32
Mae Krell: I've heard such good, it's
in, it's in Decatur, how do you pronounce
00:54:35
Jason English (Host): Decatur.
00:54:35
Mae Krell: I've heard really
good things about that venue.
00:54:38
Jason English (Host): I could
totally see you play that.
00:54:40
It's, it's, it's one
of the best ones here.
00:54:42
So, so speaking of playing,
uh, could you play a
00:54:45
song or two?
00:54:46
Mae Krell: Yeah, of course.
00:54:48
I'd love to.
00:54:50
Cool.
00:54:50
Yeah, I can
00:54:53
play, let me play, I'll play Grown, and
then I can play Apollo's Song, if that is
00:54:57
Jason English (Host): Okay.
00:55:06
Mae Krell: There's nothing I want
more than to be someone else.
00:55:13
My recurring wish.
00:55:15
Sean Birthday candles.
00:55:21
And the grass might not be greener, But
I'm sure it's easier to take care of.
00:55:37
There is nothing I fear more
than growing into my skin.
00:55:44
What if this is the best it gets?
00:55:52
And the flowers, they might not be taller,
but I'm sure they needed less to grow.
00:56:07
I'm still scared of the
dark, terrified of growing.
00:56:20
But I think I might be grown.
00:56:27
I'm still scared,
00:56:32
terrified.
00:56:34
I think I might be wrong
00:56:45
There's nothing I fear more
than learning I've found myself
00:56:53
And that this is all there is
00:57:00
My whole eternity searched for
meaning, I'm sure there must
00:57:09
be something more than this.
00:57:14
What if there's more than this?
00:57:24
I'm still scared of the.
00:57:37
But I think I might be grown.
00:57:43
I'm still scared,
00:57:48
terrified
00:57:52
to,
00:57:56
I think I might be.
00:58:00
I think I might be.
00:58:07
Jason English (Host): Thank you.
00:58:10
Mae Krell: Actually, I bought this guitar.
00:58:14
because of this song.
00:58:15
I was, I was out in LA
and I wrote this song.
00:58:18
I, well, I'd gone to like this
guitar shop, um, where this guy
00:58:22
like modifies like vintage guitars.
00:58:24
And I played this guitar and
I was like obsessed with it.
00:58:26
I was like, I cannot
buy a guitar right now.
00:58:28
I'm about to drive like
45 hours home to New York.
00:58:30
Like I can't do that.
00:58:31
I have no space in my car.
00:58:31
I've been living in it for three months.
00:58:33
And I went back to where I was staying and
ended up writing a Paula song that night.
00:58:38
And it was something named
something different at the time.
00:58:40
Um, and.
00:58:42
In my head it like was played on this
guitar like the way I remembered it
00:58:46
sounding and like I was playing it on
the Guitar that I had and I was like this
00:58:49
just doesn't sound right Like it doesn't
sound like that And I knew that when I
00:58:52
wanted to record it eventually that it
would have to be on this guitar And I
00:58:55
was like, well, I just I don't guess I
just have to go buy it So I told myself
00:58:59
that if the guitar store was gonna be was
open Before I left LA the next morning,
00:59:04
so I was about to drive the 48 hours
back to New York, that I would go buy it.
00:59:08
And then I checked their hours,
and for some reason on Fridays,
00:59:10
they opened at 9 and not at noon.
00:59:12
And I was like, I just gotta get it.
00:59:15
I just gotta do it.
00:59:15
So I just went and then I bought
this 100 year old guitar, um,
00:59:18
specifically because of Apollo's song.
00:59:21
So it's extra, extra
special for that reason.
00:59:24
Jason English (Host): That's awesome.
00:59:42
Mae Krell: Dogman to all of me is
starting to get old My best friend's
00:59:49
name will change soon, floral blueprints
On the floor, and I've thought a lot of
00:59:58
leaving the only city I've ever known.
01:00:12
They
01:00:14
clipped it's wings, but
somehow time's gone.
01:00:22
And I never saw myself walking down an
aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd look like
01:00:39
past twenty five Dreams were a luxury that
I couldn't afford Couldn't afford, and now
01:00:53
I'm living a future I never thought
I'd have The dog meant to outlive me
01:01:03
is Showing her white hair My little
brother's off to college, someone had
01:01:13
to please my parents, and I'm starting
to worry that I'll never adapt to this.
01:01:27
Thought I clipped it.
01:01:35
And I never saw myself walking down
an aisle Couldn't imagine what it'd
01:01:55
look like Past 25 dreams were a
luxury that I couldn't afford and now
01:02:12
I'm living a future I never
thought I'd have What do you
01:02:21
do with a life you didn't plan
01:02:28
Sucker punch straight
into your wildest dreams.
01:02:33
And worries to good things
don't come unpunished.
01:02:43
Think I might finally
stop praying for relief.
01:02:49
And I never saw myself walking down
an aisle But I'm starting to look
01:03:00
pretty damn close to twenty five Dreams
were a luxury that I couldn't afford
01:03:25
Jason English (Host): So beautiful.
01:03:26
Thank you, Mae
01:03:27
Mae Krell: you, thank you, for
01:03:28
Jason English (Host): That guitar sounds,
01:03:29
the guitar is perfect.
01:03:31
Mae Krell: It's cool, right?
01:03:32
It's it's it has a rubber bridge
on it, that's why it sounds weird.
01:03:37
like plucky and weird.
01:03:38
I'm so obsessed with it.
01:03:40
I feel like it writes, like
it writes songs itself.
01:03:42
Like anything you play on this
guitar just sounds better.
01:03:45
Jason English (Host): Yeah.
01:03:47
Uh, well, I really appreciate
your time and, you know, have a
01:03:50
great April, big April for you
and, uh, best to you in 2024.
01:03:55
Mae Krell: Thank you.
01:03:56
Thank you for your time.
01:03:56
I really appreciate it.
01:04:05
Jason English (Host): Thanks so
much for joining us for another
01:04:06
episode of Curious Goldfish.
01:04:08
Please follow and subscribe to
the podcast and on social media.
01:04:12
Also tell your music loving
friends about us too.
01:04:16
Until next time, stay curious.
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