Clare Cunningham: 00:00:12

They were like, whatever you're doing, um, Yeah, you're gonna have to give it up. I don't know what you do. I don't know what your lifestyle is, but you're gonna be dead in 15 years. That's what they said. And I was like, I just remember sliding in the wall crying going, I got it. Something's gotta change.

Jason English (Host): 00:01:19

It's probably not St. Patrick's day as you listen to this episode, but today we are talking with Claire Cunningham and I promise you we're all Irish for at least the next 30 minutes or so. The Irish singer songwriter currently lives in Nashville and I met with her inside her room at the residence in, in SanDestin, Florida. And she had stuff absolutely everywhere. Weights, a workout mat and a portable sauna thing that looks like an igloo and a burrito decided to have some fun together. Her workout routine is her outlet. As she manages her entire venture as an independent artist, she manages her website, social media presence, all her concert and festival and interview bookings, her swag and merch table. It's a lot. She's got a lot going on and I was fortunate she took time for me right before a performance. At the 30, a songwriter festival, 2023 was a breakout year for Clare with the debut on the stage of the Grand Ole Opry. And I'm sure last year set the stage for even greater things. She hinted at the possibility of a new Celtic album as well. She sings an acoustic version of her anthem. I swear an incredible song of hope and support, and you'll know the inspiration for it after you hear the passion and commitment she has in helping others after the personal transformation she's experienced as a person and artist over the last decade. Check her out on YouTube and social media. She has a lot of great performances out there. Here's Clare Cunningham. Let's dive in. Clare Cunningham. So nice to meet you.

Clare Cunningham: 00:02:57

So nice to meet you!

Jason English (Host): 00:02:59

Welcome to Florida.

Clare Cunningham: 00:03:00

Thank you.

Jason English (Host): 00:03:01

I don't live here, but

Clare Cunningham: 00:03:02

Yeah, where do you

Jason English (Host): 00:03:03

I live in Atlanta. We're at the 30 a songwriters festival. I was here last year. It's amazing because it's 30 venues, all these artists it's impossible to see everything, but it's just different because each venue is so intimate.

Clare Cunningham: 00:03:18

This is my first 30A I've always wanted to play this one. Kind of was made aware of when I first moved here to the States in 2018 and of course it's a, it's a little more prestigious than some of them. So you kind of have to get like either invited in or have done some good things to be able to get in. And this year was, the year I got

Jason English (Host): 00:03:42

Well, congrats. That's

Clare Cunningham: 00:03:43

thank you. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Really looking forward to it.

Jason English (Host): 00:03:46

amazing. Uh, so it seems like 2023, it was a, giganticly huge year for you. You had so much going on. What were, what were some of your highlights?

Clare Cunningham: 00:03:57

2023 on a musical note was definitely probably of the highest of standards. Mainly just because I got to debut at the, Opry, that was in March. So the year started off pretty, pretty decent with getting the news of that. And then, anybody who gets to Opry debut, sorry, at the Opry, like that's a big deal in itself. But then I also got invited, uh, by Steve Earle, then to perform. Galway Girl with him, which like growing up in Ireland, of course, like that's the song I grew up on. And then my biggest childhood hero, Mr. Garth Brooks, showed up on the night to surprise everybody. And I got to meet him. And it was just like, it was just one of the biggest highlights probably of my career. But, life goes on and then so the rest of the year I got to, perform a lot of different things and I continue to do what I do, but really for me, the highlight of any year is making a difference in people's lives and so, you know, just receiving more messages of like people who don't want to commit suicide or who say, you know, thank you for being this voice that, we really still need in the world and that to me is like, that's a successful year if I've managed to, help others through their pain,

Jason English (Host): 00:05:13

That's way more important than a hit record, right?

Clare Cunningham: 00:05:15

absolutely. And I'll say it time and time again, whether people believe it or not, but like, I'm not here for the Facebook likes and I'm not here for the money, the notoriety. I really, truly want to just make a difference in the world. And however I can do that lyrically, musically through my own life struggles, whatever, connecting with people on that level, that that's, that's a good day. You know, that, that to me is real success.

Jason English (Host): 00:05:39

So I, I believe that every song has a story and I actually believe every musician has a mission, even though they may not be so overt about it or not. Your mission is very clear. Like it's completely obvious in every, almost every song you sing. And then, you know, in, in all the content and the, in the interviews that you've done online and social, social media, I guess for the people that aren't aware of you. What is your mission?

Clare Cunningham: 00:06:05

My main mission is to leave this earth a little bit better than I came in, to be a voice of inspiration, hope, and faith for those who feel like they can't talk or won't talk to de-stigmatize conversations around mental health, through my music. And also show people that you can do an array of things like you don't have to just focus on. One thing only, like it's, we, we are a spiritual being, we're emotional, we have a physical need, we, you know, and so I think I'm also big on my health and my fitness and, and so you as a human, it, you're comprised of a lot more than just your physical body and making sure that your mental health is in state. In check and your physical being and emotional so it, you know, I'm trying to just show people that like you gotta work on thy self, but also my testimony is a big part of that too. And so I know not everybody who listens may have faith. But I want people to know, if you ever just come across me and you think I'm all, you know, about Jesus and it's always been that way, it definitely wasn't. And there's been a huge transition in my life, having left all of that beautiful world to go follow the devil for quite a while. Yeah, so I think You know, it's, it's, it's a journey and, and I just want people to know that I'm here as your fellow human as well, going through the same struggles and pain, um, but that, you gotta just stay focused on, the present moment and don't look too far into the future. Don't look back. You're not going that way and just continue life and, and you'll be, you'll be okay. But it doesn't come without its hardships, of course. It's life.

Jason English (Host): 00:07:51

I think in an interview, you mentioned that as a child and growing up you felt silenced and that you didn't have a voice, can you expand on that? And was that a. Was that sort of like a traditional religion sort of environment that you felt suppressed? Was it a family situation? Why didn't you feel like you had a voice?

Clare Cunningham: 00:08:11

Yeah, so not everybody I guess has the, same cultural background I do. So I come from a very, very, very tiny village in, in, in Ireland. And in general, and especially back, we're going back quite a while, okay, I'm not as young as I used to be. People just didn't talk about their feelings. Regardless of what was going on in the family home or outside of it or in school or whatever, you, never spoke about how you felt. That wasn't really the norm. So that's nothing wrong with culture, it was just how it was back then. But yeah, I was the victim of some, different things that happened to me in childhood and, due to legal reasons and also, again, cultural reasons. It just kind of had to go under the carpet a little bit, and throughout my adolescence, you know, there was a lot of bullying that happened and, and different things like that, that again, I was so shamed, even personally, like it wasn't even that I didn't have the option to, I just always wanted to keep quiet about everything, and I did that until I was around 27, 28, until I actually went and sought You know, a mental health therapy and did cognitive behavioral therapy, which I highly recommend for people who, feel like where's the first place I should start if you're looking to get some help, because it kind of rewires and and rejigs your brain and I love studying um, Brain, science, neurological science, I think it's so interesting. We're all very, very interesting. Really my voice was, was just not allowed to be given the way it is today. Now,

Jason English (Host): 00:09:53

which is hard to imagine, I don't know you, but your personality and just how strong you are, it's hard to imagine that you felt so suppressed, you

Clare Cunningham: 00:10:04

Yeah, well, I was a completely different, I had a different mindset too, because I thought talking about your feelings meant you were weak. If you, Were to admit there was an issue in your life or that there was problems you were looked upon as less than or that's at least what I thought, and so obviously has shifted over the years and I had to kind of leave like I, I live a very kind of solo life if that makes sense because I get very distracted by people and things I can lose myself if I don't know if that actually makes sense, but, um, I had to kind of go on my own pathway to be able to just focus on my calling and what I knew I had to do. And in order for me to do that, I kind of needed a lot of like space, because my lifestyle and my. Livelihood is always around people. And so there's a lot of noise, like physically but mentally too. Um, and I was always wanting to kind of fit in but have my own way too. I would get called weird or strange or like you're a little, and I still do. Like people don't understand me as a person. But I don't really mind anymore because I know what works. I'll take constructive criticism, but. I know what makes me happy and I know how to best serve people around me if I've done what I need to do. And I think everybody should respect that. Like I need to respect others in their lifestyles but others need to respect mine too and so when you tell me I'm boring for not going out or I'm this or I'm too much or I train too much or I eat da da da, I'm like just, just concentrate on yourself. I'll do the same. And I'll meet you somewhere in the middle where, we can both have, a conversation or, or whatnot.

Jason English (Host): 00:11:56

What was the timing of this sort of new focus on a mission to help people, be more self aware and, pursue mental health describe that timing with your newfound faith and sort of your, your testimony that you alluded to, did those, was it the intersection of both of those things? Did that happen at the same time or did they, was it independent of each

Clare Cunningham: 00:12:16

at the same time, or did they, was it in the first place? like, the CBT, the Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, worked for me, I wanted everyone to know about it. So I was more open in talking about the fact that, hey, listen, I've tried this. I do believe there is an intersection between the two for sure. Um, previous to me coming to, to Faith as well, uh, once I had received the Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, um, I actually wanted a lot of people to kind of be Be made aware of it. So, you know, when you find something that works for you, you're like, Hey, everybody, look what worked. You might not get as much positivity around it, but nobody who's ever made a difference in this world or who is successful has ever come against, the grain, so to speak. I just kept going on that trajectory and then, with coming to the, faith world that I kind of joined back in 2020, I think there was definitely, I felt a little more open to be, I was more free because I realized like I'm renewing myself now. I don't have to be ashamed of the past or anything I've gone through. I'm a new creation now and that is a. Beautiful place to find yourself in that it doesn't, it doesn't mean you go forward and you continue to sin, but it means that's all forgiven. It's forgotten. Just go ahead and, and, and live life now for, for him and, just be the person that you're designed to be.

Jason English (Host): 00:13:48

So I grew up in the church, very active, all, my childhood. My earliest memories are, going to Sunday school and church and I love a lot of those memories, but I don't remember a lot of talk about self care and mental health, right? So I guess since this newfound faith or renewed faith, um, has totally transformed who you are, what's been the reception like of. The topic of mental health, going to see therapists, et cetera. It feels like it should be more accepting and more open than it would have been 30 years ago. I'm just curious, what have you encountered with that?

Clare Cunningham: 00:14:25

Now, I had received therapy and I did all of that prior to coming back to my faith, but there's nothing wrong with seeking help. And there's nothing wrong with taking medication if it's only for short term use. If you have no other way. Um, I don't condone not taking it, but I do condone taking pills or taking, medication to suppress what's really going on. Um, because everybody comes with their issues. We don't escape life without that. And, um, there's something that you need temporary, then, you know, But be mindful that it should only be for temporary use. Look, I've tried and tested, everything. I've tried and tested different substances. I've gone to anything and everything that I thought would give me temporary release, and it It does for a while until you want the next thing. You don't necessarily need a church to be Quote unquote religious, but in order for you to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit like that's the most important relationship You're gonna have in your life. You don't need to go somewhere with four walls however you do need a community and you do need to be surrounded by people who maybe can uplift you and Follow the same kind of good things like we're meant to have them, you know, the fruits of the Spirit, right? Um, and if you're not seeking that You gotta ask yourself, what are you seeking?

Jason English (Host): 00:15:46

So on that point. You were, part of a band called Thunder Mother, right? Yeah. Was that the timing of sort of the, those parts of your life, or was it even

Clare Cunningham: 00:15:55

God, even before that, I think. I didn't really Look, I've always been a really decent human. never been one to go around and be, like, evil or anything like that, but the worldly things that I was Searching for like, yeah, probably I did want more notoriety. I wanted notoriety when I was a bit younger because I needed to quote unquote prove myself because I chose a career that wasn't a real job, right, in other people's eyes. So when people do bring up like any accolades I've done around, like, I'm just like, don't care for that. Like, I really don't like I it's beautiful and don't get me wrong. I think it's it's a nice like ode to what you're doing, but it's not what I strive for anymore. Um, but yeah, no prior to even getting into the band in Sweden, like I think I was, I think I was around. 13, when 14, probably when I decided, Ah, yeah, this lifestyle isn't for me. I'm gonna, I'm, I'm not, know? Screw the Lord, know. I was just like, I'm going, I'm leaving. This is, well, I saw too much hypocrisy too. I saw people go to church that were disgusting human beings and I was like, wait a minute. Everyone's saying they're nice, but I know what they're really like, like.

Jason English (Host): 00:17:07

For those that may not know Thunder Mother, what would you compare them to in terms

Clare Cunningham: 00:17:11

Oh yeah, ACDC and Motorhead meets. Um, Yeah, it was, it was not the, it's not the Spice Girls. the furthest thing from the Spice Girls. Although I was still Scary Spice probably, but, um, yeah. No, uh, very, very heavy classic metal rock and roll, but like with a real cool groove, you know, ACDC was the main influence of that band for sure. Very talented girls and it was, it was a, it was a fun time but it was also some of the worst mental health I had had. I started having panic attacks. I, I was at my illest when I was in that band because just years and years of touring and dealing with um, severe narcissism within the band. I just, I wasn't enjoying myself. I was living in a country that, you know, and I had, unfortunately, I had some severe cases of, uh, of stalkers. I just wasn't even living. I was living in fear continuously. it was a combination of all of that. And it wasn't. The band wasn't worth it then for me, I remember being one of the last doctors I went to over my mental health, and just my physical because I started getting, um, this really, rare form of psoriasis because of the complete trauma my body was going through. They were like, whatever you're doing, um, Yeah, you're gonna have to give it up. I don't know what you do. I don't know what your lifestyle is, but you're gonna be dead in 15 years. That's what they said. And I was like, I just remember sliding in the wall crying going, I got it. Something's gotta change. attacks.

Jason English (Host): 00:18:45

This Podcast is inspired by the mindset that was illustrated by the television character, Ted Lasso, right? Positivity, empathy, vulnerability, all those great things. Empathy as positive as he was, and as inspiring leader as that character illustrated, he had his own stuff going on. Including panic attacks and what was interesting was, as the series progressed, it's like, there's nothing wrong with this guy. He's got everything going, he was going through a divorce. Yes, but he was able to lead, he was able to motivate all those things. But then you saw that he was dealing with stuff, the panic attacks, and then he sort of battled this whole idea of self care and going to see a therapist. Right. So I think, on one hand, the positivity was a good thing to, to sort of say, okay, I want to emulate that. Right. But everybody's got their stuff, especially after, during and after COVID. And, he came around on the mental health, like the therapist ended up being one of his best friends, but I guess, could you relate to that in terms of putting out a public face of, maybe not a soccer coach, but a rocker, you know, but like inside

Clare Cunningham: 00:19:53

you're dying inside soccer coach, but a rocker, you know, but like, inside. 2023. Look, I did four house moves. I was going through so much in my personal life at times, especially only like as of recently, um, that I, I hit a really, really big wall and I had some really dark days that I. Would, would have had it been in the past and I didn't have the Lord. I, I'll just, I'll leave it there. But here's the thing, when people would see me, they're not gonna know. But, nowadays, if somebody says, how are you? I'm like, you know what? I'm actually not good. I'm going through a moment right now, but I know things will be okay. So I think it's really important that I don't lie. I don't tell them, Oh my God, everything's great like I used to. I'll just say, look, do you mind? And if they're the praying kind, I'm like, just throw me up a prayer, would So that's how I do it now. And so I think it's really important that you don't dwell on the bad too much, but that people around us need to that we're not doing okay sometimes because On the outside, everyone says, oh, but you're so happy and so positive and so did it. I'm like, yeah, but you don't know what's going on. But I want to be honest and raw, but I also need to Show that you can't like stay in that funk either. It's okay. Yeah, you're gonna have your days, but don't let the days turn into weeks, into months, into years. That's when you need to like do something about it. And don't leave the world because you think the world is too much to bear. I, I can sit here and safely say that most of the things that are happening to me that are bad and distractions and all the setbacks, you know, I'm going through a whole rigmarole of visa stuff where I don't know what's happening in my life as we sit here and talk right now, but I do know. That whatever is going to be, is going to be, and I have to trust.

Jason English (Host): 00:22:04

How, how does that show itself in your songwriting?

Clare Cunningham: 00:22:07

It definitely comes across, I think, in the sense that when I'm in that kind of mind frame, and the Lord wants to give me a song, then that just pours out. So however I'm feeling, and usually that's when I'm feeling at my lowest sometimes, is when those kind of creations come out, because you're really feeling what you're going through.

Jason English (Host): 00:22:30

So you're obviously Irish

Clare Cunningham: 00:22:33

how'd you know,

Jason English (Host): 00:22:33

questions about that. So sometimes in your songs and whether it's, prerecorded videos or the, live, content that's on YouTube, the Irish accent comes out in some songs and others it

Clare Cunningham: 00:22:44

I know.

Jason English (Host): 00:22:45

that intentional or is it just, is it just a thing?

Clare Cunningham: 00:22:48

I would love to sit down and have something wired up to me to figure out why that is. And I think because of that, people actually think I intentionally put on an accent and I really, really don't. And if I were to sing you a song that wasn't of my culture. In an Irish accent, you'd, you'd just laugh. It's, it's next to impossible to try and do that. So I think it's whatever to do with the music, the scales and the culture. It just seems to really, really come out naturally. And then when I sing something of a pop or blues or something else like of a folky type thing, then it doesn't. And I have no explanation as to why that is or isn't the way. It's definitely, it leaves it more authentic for the Celtic stuff, but it's, it's certainly not put on. It's just, I think it's just due, I'll tell you what I, as I'm sitting here trying to figure it out, I'm pretty sure we grow up on American music, right? So when you hear a pop song, you hear the inflections, you hear the way it's pronounced. That's what you do. That's how you learn. It's like people who learn English as a second language in a different accent. Right. So it's similar to that. Whereas the Irish stuff, of course, is all sung by mostly Irish and their accent kind of is integrated. So I think it's just, again, the inflections and how you pronounce the words just seems to naturally flow with the accent more.

Jason English (Host): 00:24:18

That makes sense I'm not an an expert on Irish. Music, U2 is one of my favorite bands, but there is something like, whether it's U2, especially the early stuff, Sinead O'Connor, there's, there's a certain sort of tension in the music of, those, artists that you don't feel or sense with a lot of other bands from other parts of the country. Like what, what is it about that? I

Clare Cunningham: 00:24:47

think as well, I mean, there's so many more Irish artists that you guys wouldn't have

Jason English (Host): 00:24:51

no, I picked two, I probably picked two of the most

Clare Cunningham: 00:24:54

No, you've picked two great ones. But I think it's due to the suppression and oppression in our culture. It's, it's in the lineage there, I don't think people realize how bad things were in Ireland, like most of the citizens in Ireland back in the day had to emigrate, there was a lot of slavery. There's a lot of the famine. And, when you look at any culture that comes from, from struggle or pain it's just, there's like hard times and struggle pain, poverty. Yeah, all of Like, black music, it's the same. It's like anything that comes from all of those kind of suppressed, kind of painful, um, cultural dealings. It's in the DNA. It comes right through and it comes right through in the music. So Irish music is, is probably loved on a scale because it's, it's storytelling. It's unwavering truth. It's raw. It's real. There's songs you guys will have never even heard. And we're just that's, what I grew up on, you grew up on,

Jason English (Host): 00:25:53

Who's, who's an Irish artist that a

Clare Cunningham: 00:25:56

Oh, uh, Christie Moore, Mary Black, Frances Black. You guys already know the Cranberries, they're amazing obviously. The Wolftones. Obviously you have the Pogues and the Irish Rovers, The Bards actually were a band, a local band, that I used to go and see in concert, and they became a good family, kind of, like, they, they got to know us as well and they were amazing as well.

Jason English (Host): 00:26:20

Well, you wrote a song that's an ode to your home country, that's not full of tension and strife and struggle, right? Quite delightful. What prompted you to, write that?

Clare Cunningham: 00:26:31

McCree, right? Oddly enough, that was the very, very, very first song I wrote about Ireland.

Jason English (Host): 00:26:37

when you were living here

Clare Cunningham: 00:26:37

when I just moved here in 2018, and, truth be told, I was offered a show, it was, the Nantucket Project, and it's out in Nantucket in Massachusetts. I was gonna be performing at this event, and this is the biggest yearly event that they put on, like, every year, and, like, ex presidents, I knew it was a big deal and I was like I gotta get a song and I remember sitting in my sister's spare bedroom in her house on Nantucket, where she, she resides and I was just started writing the song. And it came out in like 15 minutes and it's odd because the very first song that I write about my country is the one that like has just proven to be time and time again a timeless number that I can do and I finish absolutely every single show with it. Or if I have only one song to perform for any event, that's my go to.

Jason English (Host): 00:27:36

It's like absence makes, makes the heart grow fonder,

Clare Cunningham: 00:27:38

yeah, and I've since wrote another one, it's called, I'm on my way, bhealach. And, uh, yeah, I just got that one recorded in the studio last week and I'm really excited because I'm going to put out a full Celtic record now this year. Uh, it was meant to be out like at the end of last year, but house moving and visa stuff and life just got in the way of everything. I'm gonna be, yeah, there's a lot more of that stuff coming your way. Yeah.

Jason English (Host): 00:28:03

Well, you talked about 23, I was going to ask you about 2024. So this new album, what else is on the docket?

Clare Cunningham: 00:28:09

loads and loads of festivals. I've got, some mini tours. I've got, what else? Um, yeah, I'm still, to be honest, when January hits, that's the time, it's the quiet time, but it's most of the time when you start. Getting in all the bookings. So yeah, I've got pretty much the whole year mapped out for the major like festivals that I'm still getting more.

Jason English (Host): 00:28:32

Well, thank you for the time. Could you play a couple of

Clare Cunningham: 00:28:35

Yeah, 100%.

Jason English (Host): 00:28:38

Awesome. Thank you.

Clare Cunningham: 00:28:40

So this song I swear It goes out to anybody who needs a song that will help them through a dark day because everybody has a dark day at some point in their life where you know somebody and one in four adults, um, suffers from some form of mental health issues in their life at some point. And I actually think that number is probably higher after the pandemic. Um, so. Just know that if you're going through something that it's not going to be forever. This too shall pass and you'll, you'll get through it and hope this helps. It's not a race as long as you get where you're going it's not always easy. Living life not knowing what's on the other side. Close your eyes. Promise don't be afraid. Dream of the better times to come and just keep the faith. I promise you, like me, you'll see it through. It's taking all of your strength to just stay strong. When you feel like giving up, keep holding on. It's gonna be alright, might not be overnight, With a lot of love and mercy, and a little less pride, You'll get there, you'll get there, I swear. I know cause I felt what you're feeling When the well has run dry, it seems like your dream, only nightmares. Like a battle, that you'll never win. Broken record, always on. And the worries just don't fit. Taking all of your strength to just stay strong. When you feel like giving up, keep holding on. It's gonna be alright, might not be overnight. A lot of love and mercy, and a little less pride. You'll get there, you'll get there, I swear. It's gonna be alright. Bright might not be often, but with a lot of love and mercy, and a little less pride, you'll get there, you'll get there. You get there, you get there, you get there, you get there, I swear.

Jason English (Host): 00:33:43

Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of Curious Goldfish. Please follow and subscribe to the podcast and on social media. Also, tell your music loving friends about us too. Until next time, stay curious.

mental health

A Chat with Clare Cunningham