Kelly Willis: 00:00:07

These days I say yes a lot to things. Maybe it was last summer. I called it my summer of yes. And I decided to just, because my natural instinct was to say no to everything, just like protect myself, isolate myself. For many years, I think maybe because of all the kids I had and just the, you know, exhausting it was, I kind of like to have time where I was just quiet. And so I got into the habit of saying no. And I, I decided to take a summer where if I got invited to do something. My instinct would be no and I would have all the reasons to say no and then but I would tell myself you have to wait Until you come up with a reason to say yes, and then you have to say yes So I said yes to all these things that came along and it was the best thing that I could have done.

Jason English (Host): 00:01:11

Welcome to Curious Goldfish, a podcast community where music and curiosity come together through interesting conversations with the music makers of our world. I'm your host, Jason English. You can find Curious Goldfish and all the major podcasts and social media platforms. And of course we have all of our content on our website, curiousgoldfish. com. It was a real honor to be able to talk with Kelly Willis, a 35 year veteran of the music industry. Her perspective is obviously unique, but the most refreshing aspect of my chat with her is seeing how excited she is for what's to come. It's almost like she's hit the reset button at age 55. And you can see the excitement in her eyes and hear the anticipation in her voice when she talks about the rest of this year. It all starts with a newly formed female super trio, the Wonder Women of Country, which she tells us all about. She also performs a song called Looking Forward to Looking Back, which is a fitting summary of where she sits in her life and career in early 2024. Here's Kelly Willis, the Queen of Austin, Texas. Let's dive in. Kelly Willis. So nice to meet you.

Kelly Willis: 00:02:30

It's nice to meet you, too.

Jason English (Host): 00:02:31

I mean, here we are. We're at a beach house overlooking the Gulf. The sun is out.

Kelly Willis: 00:02:37

stunning. It's so beautiful.

Jason English (Host): 00:02:39

I mean, I know Austin is awesome for a lot of reasons, but Austin doesn't have this, does it?

Kelly Willis: 00:02:44

No and the Texas Beach does not look like that.

Jason English (Host): 00:02:48

It's the middle of January. It's a little chilly, but come on.

Kelly Willis: 00:02:52

Yeah, it's okay. I love a cold beach. I think that's a whole, a whole nother kind of vibe, vacation. Love it

Jason English (Host): 00:03:02

a scarf on. It's, it, it, it all fits.

Kelly Willis: 00:03:05

Yeah, I love it.

Jason English (Host): 00:03:07

How often have you been to the 30A festival?

Kelly Willis: 00:03:09

is my first time. Yeah.

Jason English (Host): 00:03:11

did, how did that come about?

Kelly Willis: 00:03:13

I don't know. I don't know why they asked me. I'm glad they did. I feel really honored to be included as a songwriter. I've always considered myself more of a singer, but I do write songs, and um, so yeah, I'm just, I'm glad that that it happened. I don't know how these things happen. I just get a phone call and then I get to play decision maker. I get to be this powerful God. Will I or won't I? Yes, I will. Usually I will.

Jason English (Host): 00:03:41

Well, it's probably like this podcast interview. You're like, Oh, I guess I'll show up and do

Kelly Willis: 00:03:45

exactly. I'm like, well, that could be fun. These days I say yes a lot to things. I am. Um, maybe it was last summer. I called it my summer of yes. And I decided to just, because my natural instinct was to say no to everything, just like protect myself, isolate myself. For many years, I think maybe because of all the kids I had and just the, you know, exhausting it was, I kind of like to have time where I was just quiet. And so I got into the habit of saying no. And I, I decided to take a summer where if I got invited to do something. My instinct would be no and I would have all the reasons to say no and then but I would tell myself you have to wait Until you come up with a reason to say yes, and then you have to say yes So I said yes to all these things that came along and it was the best thing that I could have done. I just I made friends. I did things I wrote songs I had I was on gigs. I made connections. It was just wonderful and so I don't say yes to everything now, but I try to say yes to most things. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's one of the perks of being in a career for a long time. At some point you can make, you can shape it the way you like. Um, so yeah, I mean, I'm not going to do everything, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm much more open.

Jason English (Host): 00:05:11

What was the most surprising? Yes, that you, uh, that turned out in a way that you didn't anticipate.

Kelly Willis: 00:05:17

I went on a writer's retreat

Jason English (Host): 00:05:19

Oh my gosh.

Kelly Willis: 00:05:20

I would never do that cause I have a lot of social anxiety, so just the idea of being with people that much, and co writing is a scary thing. Co writing is so vulnerable and it, to me, it feels like it could go off the tracks and be awkward and weird, just like a lot of potential disaster. But I did that and it was with these other women and I loved all of them and we had a great time and we wrote some good songs and, uh, I just. Realize that I could do it. I had just been afraid to do it,

Jason English (Host): 00:05:56

That's incredible. Take me through like, you know, a snapshot of like an hour or two in that environment. Do you, do you come in with ideas? Do you put it on a whiteboard and say, you know, that kind of could work with this? Does one person come in with something half baked and you kind of help refine it? How does

Kelly Willis: 00:06:12

Yeah, I mean there was just a group of us and we would all just kind of look around and go You want to write one together? It was really not that organized. It was just kind of who and Then ultimately there'd be like two people who were like, well, we're the only two left. Let's go right together. So it's very casual and for me I came in with some ideas and The other girls helped me finish those songs I don't really have a strong skill in helping other people finish their

Jason English (Host): 00:06:40

Right.

Kelly Willis: 00:06:41

Um,

Jason English (Host): 00:06:42

different, right? That's a different,

Kelly Willis: 00:06:43

it's very

Jason English (Host): 00:06:44

different skill. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:06:46

Um, for me anyway, uh, I don't think on my feet that fast. I like to sit and mull and, because tinker with it and mess with it and then completely scrap it. Come back with something a little different. And so, usually I've done a lot of that before I bring a song in to get someone to help me with it. out of to help someone finish their song is a it's just a different skill set I mean, I've

Jason English (Host): 00:07:11

song as well.

Kelly Willis: 00:07:32

huh?

Jason English (Host): 00:07:33

That's the

Kelly Willis: 00:07:34

Oh god, definitely the heartbreak I mean, that's the stuff you remember.

Jason English (Host): 00:07:38

the layup, yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:07:39

remember the good things that have happened to me. Are you kidding?

Jason English (Host): 00:07:41

Don't say that. Right. It's just about,

Kelly Willis: 00:07:44

They're just they just fly by but the the bad stuff sticks with you and my Oh Painful stuff the stuff you want to a queen. just emote But yeah, personal experience and some little thing will happen like I'm, I've written this song called From a King to a Queen. And it's just about, uh, I got divorced two years ago and I had to get rid of my, this giant bed.

Jason English (Host): 00:08:15

That's amazing.

Kelly Willis: 00:08:16

I know. And I'm just thinking about it. I was like, so just little things like that are the stuff that gets me. Going.

Jason English (Host): 00:08:26

really good, yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:08:28

Thanks. Thanks. It's not ready for prime time yet, but it exists.

Jason English (Host): 00:08:35

So one thing I forgot to mention, we're here at this music festival and I'm talking to, you know, a few artists and you talked about singing and then songwriting. One of the artists I interviewed yesterday, his name's Matt Killough. I don't know if you know who he is, but he's, a newer artist. He has one album. He lives in Nashville now. He's from Georgia. And he was just, you know, we're getting ready for the interview and he's like, so who else are you talking to? And I mentioned a couple of people and I was like, Oh yeah, I'm talking to Kelly Willis tomorrow. And he's like, wait, what? And he said, listen, for me, it's Patty Loveless and it's Kelly Willis.

Kelly Willis: 00:09:09

my god, that's amazing.

Jason English (Host): 00:09:11

So I wanted to tell you that because I was like, well, she'd love to hear

Kelly Willis: 00:09:13

Yeah, that's so sweet.

Jason English (Host): 00:09:16

mean, Patty Loveless just got into the hall of fame,

Kelly Willis: 00:09:18

Yes, I'm and I was on MCA when Patty Loveless was there, so I got to see it her up close in a person. She's amazing

Jason English (Host): 00:09:26

You talk about relationships and love languages, you know, words of affirmation are always like important. so

Kelly Willis: 00:09:32

cool, it's very nice,

Jason English (Host): 00:09:33

think it's important to tell people, uh, when you hear good things. And so, you know, I thought you'd get

Kelly Willis: 00:09:38

I'll completely forget that of course I'll be gone

Jason English (Host): 00:09:41

can't forget that.

Kelly Willis: 00:09:42

No,

Jason English (Host): 00:09:42

Don't, don't be a goldfish. Like there's certain, there's certain times when you should be a goldfish where, you know, forget mistakes and stuff, but things you should hold on

Kelly Willis: 00:09:50

maybe I should write it down and have a little mirror affirmation.

Jason English (Host): 00:09:54

Yeah, exactly. exactly. So you mentioned MCA, which leads me to a thing about eras. Are you Taylor Swift fan?

Kelly Willis: 00:10:02

I'm in this funny little spot that I've not like a crazy Taylor Swift fan, but I'm, I don't have anything against her, but I'm impressed. Incredibly impressed with her.

Jason English (Host): 00:10:11

Well, I was going to ask you, you know, you've had this incredible career and your perspective on what she's been able to do, at 32 and coming up through through country. And now

Kelly Willis: 00:10:19

I know

Jason English (Host): 00:10:19

mean, what,

Kelly Willis: 00:10:20

she blows me away. I feel like she's kind of like a different, she's nobody like that. The people who are that talented, that young and it's like she's like superman from some other planet, right? We can't compare ourselves to her. She's unique and Yeah, it blows my mind what she's done to go from country to pop and to be so powerful and yet, vulnerable and all that stuff. It's really impressive. And to be that good, that young is crazy to me. Um, yeah,

Jason English (Host): 00:10:56

but I was blown away because she had 75, 000 people in the palm of her hand and it was like ultimate power. And I'm like, good for her, you know, like good for her. So,

Kelly Willis: 00:11:06

Yeah, she does it all.

Jason English (Host): 00:11:07

Yeah, Anyway, I bring that up because, she had the eras tour and, you've had this career. You, I think you've had your own eras, right? So you mentioned MCA, that's probably maybe the first era. Is that fair? Yeah, And I'm not going to get these in the right sequential order, but there was MCA that you went, uh, you do a little rockabilly. Is that part of the same era or is that its own

Kelly Willis: 00:11:30

say I was rockabilly first. So it was a rockabilly and a rockabilly band. And then I moved to from the D. C. area and I moved to Austin. And, within two years from living in Austin, I got my MCA deal. So I was 20 when I got that

Jason English (Host): 00:11:45

And that was like in the late eighties, right? 89 or 90. Yeah,

Kelly Willis: 00:11:48

and I think my record came out in 90. So, rockabilly first, and then much more country. Um, I'm a second.

Jason English (Host): 00:11:57

And then yet you're a mother, right? And you're still a mother, but like there was probably raising, raising your son. And you know, that's probably its own era, right?

Kelly Willis: 00:12:07

I got my RICO record deal and I made this, what I deserve record before I had kids. And I, I'd probably call that a different era because that was much more of an independent kind of country folk thing for me and where I really started writing songs. And then I got married and had kids and then I, I had four kids in that time and that was survival mode. So that was different.

Jason English (Host): 00:12:30

All in. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

Kelly Willis: 00:12:34

because that was so all consuming and difficult. That's when my husband and I started performing together and more of a duo, um, just, you know, to keep it all in house kind of, you know, it just kind of worked better that way.

Jason English (Host): 00:12:53

that time you and Bruce that that's probably its own era as well. Right? Yeah. Yeah, What's the era today?

Kelly Willis: 00:13:00

You know, it's funny because, um, so I'm 55 and I am having the most fun. I am loving my career more now than ever, and I never would have thought that, and I've been out doing these shows. I've been, So my kids, I still have one at home, but three of them are off in college, starting their lives, and, I've been able to spend more time getting back into touring and being on the road and, uh, just gigging a lot more. So I've been doing that just my solo stuff, but also with these other two women, Brennan Lee and Melissa Carper, this trio with them. That is so fun. they're both so talented, but I think because we're all three, we have individual bands where our own front people, right? That everyone in the band is so invested in what we're doing. Um, no one's a gun for hire that's wondering, if they're going to get paid for doing this podcast. You know what I mean? Like they're, which they have every right to that's their, that's their gig. But the three of us are just like, well, what should we do now? And equally just enjoying it and doing whatever bending over backwards because it's our thing.

Jason English (Host): 00:14:17

Do you play each other's songs? do, you play your own

Kelly Willis: 00:14:19

we get up and So Melissa plays stand up bass and Brennan is a badass guitar player. She plays all the lead parts and mandolin. and then I just play all the strummy, swishy stuff that blends it together. Um, and we play each other's songs and sing harmonies on each song. And

Jason English (Host): 00:14:37

There a name for the trio?

Kelly Willis: 00:14:38

yes, we just named it. We're, uh, Wonder Women of Country. I know! Like two weeks ago. Cause we did it, we just recorded a little EP and we're we're like, we have to have a name, you guys, and Brennan, Brennan goes, uh, how about Wonder Woman of Country, and we're all like, yes.

Jason English (Host): 00:14:56

see the I can see the merch right now.

Kelly Willis: 00:14:58

there's so many merch

Jason English (Host): 00:15:00

there's so many options. Well, that's cool. So what you're having the most fun now, I guess which era shape shape shaped you will shape you the most like you that you're like okay, well, I wouldn't be who I was today. I'm sure they all contributed to it. But like what's what stands out? Mm

Kelly Willis: 00:15:16

to it, but, um, I think when I started performing with Bruce, my ex husband, that, um, all of a sudden the pressure was divided in half. So I was on stage, every aspect of it was more fun because there was somebody there who was going to catch any moment where something might Just go wrong or I, you know, sometimes you just there blank space out, just stuff happens. And knowing that. There was someone else there that was equally and someone else was going to talk or tell a story or thing I sing. You know, just, I don't have to sing this next song. I get to do the harmony part, which is so fun to sing the harmony part. It just divided the workload and I was able to learn from him because he had a completely different style of performing. It was just a lot more fun. I was always really nervous, really worried about being perfect when it was just

Jason English (Host): 00:16:18

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of

Kelly Willis: 00:16:19

singing perfectly, all the things and performing with him, I was able to see how to be more, to have a better time up there and, it was just a whole, it was very great learning experience about just stepping inside somebody else's thing and seeing a completely different side Perspective.

Jason English (Host): 00:16:45

That's neat. Are you able to apply that to the Wonder Women of Country now as well? It probably still applies, right?

Kelly Willis: 00:16:54

Oh Yeah. It changed everything. Even my solo stuff, just even without other people, I just have more fun. Somewhere along the way, I learned that it didn't really matter how you sang. Like, you know, the people, my favorite people that are singing, I never think about that they're singing. If you think of Mick Jagger, you're not thinking about if he's hitting the notes. beautifully. He's just singing. He's just telling you this story. He's just embodying that song. And so I stopped worrying about that.

Jason English (Host): 00:17:25

Yeah, they're not holding up numbers, you know, when you listen to it, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:17:31

So Yeah. that changed for me.

Jason English (Host): 00:17:32

No, that's great. So you mentioned the anxiety, obviously as a music fan, you make assumptions about artists and on stage and recording records. It's just wild to, to learn and, you know, understand that artists struggle with. I don't know if it's, you know, stage fright or social phobia or all these things, but it's a real thing, I guess. Tell me more about that and has it changed through the years? Is it, you know, yeah, tell

Kelly Willis: 00:18:02

Well, I used to have pretty severe social phobia, as a young person. And, if you talk to me, I might cry. Like it was very difficult for me, not around people that I knew that were my friends and trusted people. I was, whatever my personality is, was, would be full on, but, in most settings, it was intense and

Jason English (Host): 00:18:27

Is it one on one, was it one on one conversations? Or was it just, is the stage just a different environment and you were able to kind of like work through it? Or was it also that?

Kelly Willis: 00:18:36

well, it was a lot of one on one, a lot of. All the just different little exchange moments in life. Like if you're at the grocery store and you're in line and you know in a minute you're going to have to talk to the checkout person. Terrifying. So it's those kinds of little things. On the stage you could sort of, disassociate. You could be in this little world, right? You're presenting something. You're pretending in a way. The guys used to tease me because for years, I, anything I said on stage would end with a, and it was really fun. So, you know, you just, you don't have much, uh, personality up there. Right. But, I think it was just immersion therapy. Right. I just took me about 10 years of. can to It's just doing everything wrong that you could, that could possibly go wrong, what eventually happened, you survive it. And now you have that skill.

Jason English (Host): 00:19:31

Right

Kelly Willis: 00:19:32

And then, coping and then other stuff happens where you start having fun. There's so many little catchphrases that happen on the road, but like one of them is, well, another perfect show, like you walk off the stage. And you just, it just doesn't matter that much. you just have a good time.

Jason English (Host): 00:19:51

If you were, 20 years old today experiencing the same challenges, do you think the environment would be different in the access to help or resources or, You know, I guess the, the openness around self awareness and self care,

Kelly Willis: 00:20:06

I

Jason English (Host): 00:20:06

would it be, would it be, different? Do you think

Kelly Willis: 00:20:08

think? it would be different. I don't, nobody really talked about this stuff back then, and I think it's pretty common.

Jason English (Host): 00:20:13

Do you think Yeah,

Kelly Willis: 00:20:14

and I, I mean, definitely there's like drugs and stuff people take for social phobia now, and I was never, that was never an option. Um, but I do know that it would have been, more talked about. Although, although there would be social media and stuff that I would have not been able to

Jason English (Host): 00:20:32

oh my gosh, that would be just, that'd be like a nightmare. Right. Yeah. Yeah. and you, you know, we mentioned Taylor Swift too. It's like as successful as she is, it's well documented. She's got so many insecurities and she's aware of everything and it completely affects her. And you'd think, well, it's, you know, like she's at the point where like she shouldn't care, but like it,

Kelly Willis: 00:20:53

Right, but you grow up. you grow up, you're standing on a stage, and people are looking at you, and they're judging every little thing about you, and you get used to that, and you can kind of get a tough skin about it, but it's hard to not walk around feeling concerned about whether or not everything about you is perfect, or you're presentable. So that's gonna mess with your head. Although I think a lot about Taylor Swift's life is gonna mess with her head. It's like Michael Jackson

Jason English (Host): 00:21:24

a lot going on.

Kelly Willis: 00:21:25

Elvis Presley. Like, I don't think that's good for you. I don't think it's good for you.

Jason English (Host): 00:21:30

Yeah. How important is curiosity to you.

Kelly Willis: 00:21:34

Oh, really important. I think you got to keep, you got to be in learning mode. You got to be open to seeing things. You can't shut yourself down and just go, okay, this is it.

Jason English (Host): 00:21:46

Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:21:47

This is what I'm doing from now until the day I die. Like, I don't think there's a lot of joy in that.

Jason English (Host): 00:21:52

Well goes back to what you said about your summer of yes. Right. I mean, if curious, a non curious person. They wouldn't have a summer of yes. And you sort of illustrated that point, right?

Kelly Willis: 00:22:04

yeah. I think it's good for your mental health and doesn't mean you're gonna like be good at everything

Jason English (Host): 00:22:11

yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:22:13

like everything but

Jason English (Host): 00:22:14

So at 55, what are you curious about today?

Kelly Willis: 00:22:18

Oh man, I'm just curious that whenever anything comes my way, I'm just trying to be more open to it. I mean, I, I did try to learn how to play guitar better a few months ago. (laughter) It's like, cause all I do is strum. I don't do any picking at all. And I'm like, I've got to learn how to do that. This is my life. This is my livelihood. I need to know how to do that. And I got in there and I tried. I tried. And I, I can play, Wildwood Flower, but that's not gonna come up.

Jason English (Host): 00:22:56

might as well be that.

Kelly Willis: 00:22:57

I can't transfer that into my own songs, but, you know, I kind of got to see, I learned a little bit there and I, I got my friend Jackie room to take some guitar lessons too. Like we were talking about it and he's like, yeah, I'm going to learn how to do. And then eventually we were like, screw that, you know, you know, what's better being the singer.

Jason English (Host): 00:23:16

about it.

Kelly Willis: 00:23:17

Yeah. Who wants to be the guitar player?

Jason English (Host): 00:23:19

Yeah. Well, you know,

Kelly Willis: 00:23:22

Come on. It's our fantasy. We, we came up with it.

Jason English (Host): 00:23:25

no, that's, that's great. We talked about eras of your career. Are you, did you ever see the Ken Burns documentary on country music? So I've watched that like 10 times. It's, I think it's like the most amazing thing on television in terms of documentaries, you know, Cause it's, it's American history. It's music history. It's, it's a lot. And what I love about it is the threads, you know, the, the Carter family, Jimmy Rodgers, Hank Williams, and the way that the threads are all connected, I guess, when you were thinking about music in getting into industry and as you developed your own career, what were the threads of country music that inspired you the most? When I

Kelly Willis: 00:24:07

I first started, I was, into rockabilly. There were people in rockabilly like Wanda

Jason English (Host): 00:24:13

big in Austin. Right.

Kelly Willis: 00:24:15

but also to Buddy Holly who kind of had a foot in both worlds, right? Like it's rockabilly, it's early rock and roll, it's country. It's a little of all that. And then like Patsy Cline who kind of, it was also in that same plane, that same era. To where I could go from rockabilly to country. And that's, felt like a, there was more growth there. Growth potential in that, in country than there was in rockabilly. So it was almost like I, I grew, I evolved out of rockabilly into a country. And then I was really, really only interested in that kind of Buck Owens era country music. But living in Austin, there was all this Texas. And I started to date this, Texan, Bruce Robison, who his whole world was 70s country, which I had totally looked down

Jason English (Host): 00:25:16

don't know. Oh, my gosh.

Kelly Willis: 00:25:16

And um, so I got introduced to all of that and Willie Nelson and, uh, stuff. Mm Gary Stewart, Jerry Jeff Walker, all that stuff. So that was a huge moment of growth as well, like just being able to.

Jason English (Host): 00:25:32

Right,

Kelly Willis: 00:25:33

see the potential and all this, this stuff that I, you know, had come from this other little world. You know, rockabilly is a very critical. We're very judgmental, which might be why I was used to be so scared of interviews. I thought I was being judged, but you had to know all the facts and figures about all the people and you had, you really had to know what you're talking about. And I don't ever really know what I'm talking about. So it was scary. But, that was my growth. And then much more kind of folky stuff after that and learning how to, you know, I heard this Lucinda Williams record and, was it called Big Red Sun? Was that the name of the record? And I'd gotten an advanced copy of it and this was the, like 90 something, and probably 90. Um, and it changed, I just, it changed my mind about songwriting. And I thought to myself, you know, you can be, you can do whatever you want. You do not have to write like these little Nashville hit

Jason English (Host): 00:26:38

Yeah. The hooks. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:26:40

you know, the world I was in so young, I got in there, I was 20 and it was, they're always looking for hits.

Jason English (Host): 00:26:45

Yeah. There's a formula. Yep.

Kelly Willis: 00:26:47

And so I realized you can have your own quirky little thing. It doesn't have to be anything except you. And that freed me up to just start playing around with songwriting a little more.

Jason English (Host): 00:27:00

That's awesome. That's awesome. So you mentioned the wonder women of country. If you look at 2024 and the next few years, like that next era, like what else do you see on the horizon?

Kelly Willis: 00:27:12

Well, we have a EP. That we recorded together. We're going to put that out in March. And then, keep playing some of that together. The sweet thing about that is we can do that some of the time and then we all go off to our own worlds and do our own things. So I I am also reissuing my What I Deserve record, which came out in 98, I think. It's 25 this year. Unbelievably. So we're going to have it on vinyl. And maybe I'll put a little tour behind that. And then hopefully I can make another solo record. I do have some new songs, but I need to find a creative partner to make that happen.

Jason English (Host): 00:27:49

Right.

Kelly Willis: 00:27:49

So yeah, that's kind of what's going on.

Jason English (Host): 00:27:51

I know streaming is a, is an issue or a conversation for artists and things like that, it does give you a platform, right. For people like us to just dial up anything. Do you have a preference on the platform? And if you use Spotify, could you give the audience a indication of what was in your 2023 wrapped top five.

Kelly Willis: 00:28:11

I do use Spotify I was like my number one artist was me

Jason English (Host): 00:28:16

That's awesome.

Kelly Willis: 00:28:17

every time. Every year I'm like, I can't share this.

Jason English (Host): 00:28:21

That's

Kelly Willis: 00:28:21

Damn it. But it's because I always go, if I'm going to play something I haven't played in a while, I go there and I, that's where I listened to it and practice it. So I might listen to it 15 times because I'm kind of practicing it

Jason English (Host): 00:28:33

Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:28:34

every year. It's like, Oh God, my favorite song was one of my songs. Like it's, it's humiliating.

Jason English (Host): 00:28:40

Oh my gosh,

Kelly Willis: 00:28:41

Um,

Jason English (Host): 00:28:42

thing.

Kelly Willis: 00:28:43

I know. My Spotify is always going to be. I think maybe that, Big Star Song 13 was my most listened to song last year. Which, so it's, it's, not like I'm, it's not like it's, I'm on the pulse of what's going on. I

Jason English (Host): 00:28:57

that's you,

Kelly Willis: 00:28:57

I just go pull up something that I, that I'm feeling.

Jason English (Host): 00:29:02

One last question. When you signed with MCA, there was, I don't know how all the finances work, but You signed to a label, hmm. How much things happened. There was a process. How much has that process changed to today? You know, and for me, getting somebody to listen to a song for three and a half minutes doesn't sound like a Herculean task, but when you consider all the, the news outlets, the content that's online, social media, the millions of tracks you can play on, on, you know, Spotify or Pandora to get someone to listen to a song for three minutes, that's actually a big deal. Right.

Kelly Willis: 00:29:37

for sure.

Jason English (Host): 00:29:38

Um, but like in terms of the business aspect of things, I mean, how much of it has changed?

Kelly Willis: 00:29:43

Well, God, so much of it's changed and but also my, place in the world has changed. Back when I was really starting, I was a young, untested

Jason English (Host): 00:29:52

Yeah.

Kelly Willis: 00:29:53

Act that there was a lot of potential, the unknown potential, right? So that's like very attractive to harder the, business part of the world. And you do stuff for a while and you, you reach a plateau and then you're like, okay, well that's where I'm at. And this is where I'm going to have to negotiate my career from here on out. And then it's harder to get those business people. They want to get somebody that see possibly making them a ton of money. You never have trouble getting any creative people involved, but the business side of it's a whole different world.

Jason English (Host): 00:30:26

That have happened 25 years ago as it's happened now? Just you guys like, Hey, we want to do it. Or would that have been a whole different process?

Kelly Willis: 00:30:34

I think it could have happened. Yeah, because that's, that's just been a natural, organic, creative thing that we just fell into place together. I don't really know how the music business works now because I don't know how they're making money and I know it takes money. So, but you know, there's so much less mystery involved too. Um, back then, they'd have to come see me. We didn't give them tapes because we didn't want them to pick us apart. They couldn't look up numbers to see anything about me. They just had to see me live and get a feel and see if they, what they thought,

Jason English (Host): 00:31:15

and believe.

Kelly Willis: 00:31:15

yeah, and believe. And I don't know how they do that now because now they have so much other stuff that they can pick apart about you and take the magic out of it, you know? And crunch it down into numbers, every little part of it. I'm doing it, all myself these days. I don't know how they, how the business people are doing it.

Jason English (Host): 00:31:35

right?

Kelly Willis: 00:31:35

It is, for sure. I love it. and it's fun.

Jason English (Host): 00:31:39

Yeah, I'm excited. You know, I'm I'm I'm almost 50 but to hear you say that, you know, Y where you're at

Kelly Willis: 00:31:46

Yeah.

Jason English (Host): 00:31:46

career-wise, age-wise, you're having the most fun ever. I mean that,

Kelly Willis: 00:31:49

get inspired

Jason English (Host): 00:31:50

I, get inspired by that and I know people will, people will also like, you know, thank you for sort of affirming that,

Kelly Willis: 00:31:55

I hope so, because I wasn't expecting that.

Jason English (Host): 00:31:57

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you.

Kelly Willis: 00:32:02

Thank you.

Jason English (Host): 00:32:02

you. Yeah. I really appreciate it. you.

Kelly Willis: 00:32:04

Me too.

Jason English (Host): 00:32:05

Um, will you play a song

Kelly Willis: 00:32:06

yeah, I could play one.

Jason English (Host): 00:32:08

Alright. Cool.

austin

A Chat with Kelly Willis